Same rules or different Rules (PC vs NPC)

[herrozerro]

One of the major points on both e "Whats wrong with 4e" and the "whats right with 4e" threads is the separation of rules for NPCs and PCs. So lets discuss.

Personally im all for the 4e method, monsters are super easy to create, no more hundreds of spells for a high level wizard NPC, dont have to worry about levels, and level adjustments and adding classes to NPCs anymore.

I think the simplicity of creating monsters that are probably not going to last past the encounter is great. But also on the flip side, if i want to create a master wizard guy i can have the option of creating a PC like creature. Or even just add 20 options and rules to the statblock.

 

[Jack99]

While I must admit that I am trying to steer clear of calling anything a deal-breaker, this is one of the areas where I am really hoping that they make it exactly as I wish.

PC: Simple skeleton with lots of meaningful options, not just +modifiers to attack, damage and saves.

NPC: Simple, yet varied statblocks I can run as are, without the need to look things up elsewhere.

Especially the NPC's are important to me, as a DM. Vis-a-vis the PC's, I am much more flexible.

 

[Ahnehnois]

For anyone who watches the show 'Sanctuary', I find the term "monster" inappropriate.

If it's intelligent, then it has a life, experiences, skills, passions, goals, all kinds of things. I want to see those acknowledged in mechanics. I don't want to see it assumed that a monster has a lifespan inside of one minute, or that every monster is killed after interacting with the PCs. I do want to see monsters that operate on the same mechanical platform as PCs, giving a sense of fairness and making the rules easier to learn.

I do want to see monster stats that are self-sufficient and don't require a lot of page turning.

 

[Bedrockgames]

I prefer having the same rules.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

For anyone who watches the show 'Sanctuary', I find the term "monster" inappropriate.

If it's intelligent, then it has a life, experiences, skills, passions, goals, all kinds of things. I want to see those acknowledged in mechanics. I don't want to see it assumed that a monster has a lifespan inside of one minute, or that every monster is killed after interacting with the PCs. I do want to see monsters that operate on the same mechanical platform as PCs, giving a sense of fairness and making the rules easier to learn.

I do want to see monster stats that are self-sufficient and don't require a lot of page turning.

See I am completly the otherway. They are monsters that are going to die and in most cases are onlyspeed bumps on the way to PC victory... why lie about it?

 

[Aldarc]

I prefer differences. It makes it easier on DM prep time. NPCs are meant to be "props" that the characters encounter.

 

[AeroDm]

I prefer the same rules, with a pin stuck to ensure NPCs have simple rules. That is, ideally, both PCs and NPCs are built with rules that allow them to be simple and quick to create.

 

[Ahnehnois]

See I am completly the otherway. They are monsters that are going to die and in most cases are onlyspeed bumps on the way to PC victory... why lie about it?

That's one style. Are you sure you want to make a blanket statement ("most cases")? You can build a campaign around a monster (especially a dragon, note the name of the game). Even if you don't a monster is just a nonhuman NPC, and deserves to be treated as a character (and many NPCs die fast as well).

The reason to create monsters with depth even if they might die in a few rounds is because if that doesn't happen, it's a lot easier to ignore detail you don't need than to create detail you don't have. It's entirely possible to get a flavorful, dynamic, detailed monster on one page without the annoying page references. That should be the standard.

 

[delericho]

In the run up to 4e, I argued strongly for them using the same rules.

I was wrong. Moving the monsters to a simpler stat-block format, and only worrying about getting the math "about right" (rather than worrying about a skill rank here and a feat there) was probably the wisest move made in 4e.

The PCs and monsters should use different rules.

 

[Rechan]

Different. I should not need to consult the PHB to make enemies.

Isn't 3e the fluke in this? I didn't really see much "Sameness" looking at 1e and 2e monster statblocks compared to PCs.

And considering how monster statblocks and "ease of prep" seem to be the #1 positive most can agree on about 4e, hopefully it will be what 'sticks'.