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Message: <blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 5776447" data-attributes="member: 957">No, that is not a quality answer.  "Level 27 solo does not mean ANYTHING other than what level of challenge he presents from a purely game point of view.  There is no narrative merit.I want to look at the archer and see what all makes him easy or hard to hit and look at the guy in armor and do the same and then figure out the same.  This will tell me their AC.  That and that ALONE.Your foundation is absolutely unrelated to their narrative value.  You then use narrative to tweak that 100% game based value.  The game math is not a factor, it is completely dominant.  Narrative gets to have no more than "two or three points" after the math has laid down the law.To be 100% clear, I'm speaking entirely based on my own personal taste here.  It isn't meant to reflect on the awesome fun of your game or anyone but me and me alone.That is insanely WRONG!  What armor the guy routinely wears is part of his fundamental concept.  You are looking at a table that offers nothing remotely related to narrative and letting that dictate the narrative mertis of your characters.A guy with the same DEX, same armor and same shield has the same AC.  Period.  If that guy is L1 his AC is X.  If that guy is level 17 his AC is STILL X.Can you do THAT with a 4E style system?In the absence of any other information this is a good presumption.  But think about what you just said.  You just said that EVERY demon lord has very similar stats.  Yes, you have room to wiggle in "epic tier" but not all that much.  Certainly not NEARLY enough to satisfy me.  And before you get hung up trying to prove the size of the range, please keep in mind that the limits on the range on just icing on the cake.  Looking it up in the first place is the cake.What if I want a demon lord of really evil brick walls?  And I want him to have triple the HP and 75% higher AC than a completely "typical" demon lord.  And I want his Will save to suck.  Not be -3, I want it to SUCK.Now, clearly I can just kludge every bit of that on there.  I can scratch off the numbers from your template and write in whatever the hell I want.  But ignoring 4E is not a case for the goodness of 4E.  ("for Bryon")Yeah, that is great narrative stuff.  And ever word of that is edition neutral.  If I stated them up for my system of choice I'd think about how to best mechanically capture the nature of those things.If I state them up for 4E I'd look at a table to see what the DCs and damages for a L27 solo should be.  The fact that this table was built without the slightest input from my narrative ideas is beside the point.  I get plus or minus 2 or 3 for that.......You are going to use the same mechanics with just different flavor text.   And, as I've said before I have no doubt whatsoever that in your game you can describe things AWESOME.  But you can provide those same descriptions regardless of edition.  What you or I bring to the table doesn't contribute to the merits of one edition over another.  I want awesome flavor text AND mechanics which are tied to the narrative merits of the creature.Nope, this is MY narrative.  You don't get to trump me on MY story.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I want you to describe MY story.  You have your L27 solo stated and ready to go.  Now his twin brother walks in.  The starmetal ain't steel.  And it is vastly tougher than the demon's skin.  He is THRILLED to have this protection.  Don't tell me how it works FOR YOU.  You are selling 4E TO ME.  Show me how your mechanics fit MY narrative demands.  Or agree that they don't.That isn't what 4E says and that is not what you have been saying.The just confined the narrative of my starsteel armor so that it would follow the orders of the 4E lookup table.  You gave it +2 compared to the table. You painted the description on top of the same mechanic, but left the mechanic itself as sacrosanct.What does level 21 have to do with ANYTHING?</blockquote>

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