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<blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 5778949" data-attributes="member: 957">Thank youNo, I think that very much gets the point.And we get into personal preference real quick here, so I don't think my opinion applies.&nbsp; But I personally would still prefer to forget balance altogether and build an ideal narrative system and THEN try to figure out how to balance things later.&nbsp; Not everything is balanced and overwhelming force and weak spots are parts of the way things work.&nbsp; And even 3E has a lot of &quot;level&quot; to it.&nbsp; As I said, if they REALLY made the game I wanted then it would SUCK BADLY on the marketplace.&nbsp; But 3E is acceptable to me.In this thread, in this forum, my point is really tied to what makes sense for WotC trying to produce a larger fan base.&nbsp; And I'm a little amused by the reluctance of key portions of the 4E fanbase to allow any progress whatsoever.But I'll throw a few predictions out.&nbsp; The first is a gimmie.Edition &quot;I&quot;&nbsp; will move soundly away from being pure 4E.&nbsp; (It very likely will have a &quot;quick and simple&quot; alternate for a lot of things as part of serving every edition)&nbsp; But the idea that they will just recycle 4E isn't even thoughtful&nbsp;&nbsp; They could just continue to re-tool and not go through a fraction of the expense and PR.&nbsp; Not to mention the sales plumment that 4E will take effective immediately.&nbsp; (As 3E did the day 4E was announced)*IF* they come up with a more complex system, that appeals to lost fans but loses a lot of 4E fans, they will still end up with a bigger fan base than they have now.&nbsp; (That is a huge &quot;if&quot;.&nbsp; I'm very interested, but PF is still awesome right now.&nbsp; I won't change for equity, then need BETTER. And I suspect I'm typical of non D&amp;D players.&nbsp; They will look for &quot;better&quot;.)Assuming #2 happens, a reasonable number of 4E fans who don't follow will &quot;come around&quot;.&nbsp;&nbsp; They may not DM, but they will find that there are DMs running great games and they will follow.&nbsp; Keep in mind that many 4E fans were content with 3E before 4E came along.&nbsp; And I do expect *I* will attempt to offer something to both.&nbsp; (Which, of course, could be the basis for implosion as well).&nbsp; I do fully realize that what I'm saying here is EXACTLY the thing that 4E fans incorrectly said early on about 4E non-adopters.&nbsp; But I don't think it is an equal comparison and I think you will see it work better for a hypothetical &quot;appeals to the lost 3E fans&quot; version.&nbsp; (And 4E fans who NEVER liked 3E probably won't be very common amongst that &quot;reasonable number.&quot;&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />&nbsp; )God, how did I pull this tangent.....&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="BryonD, post: 5778949, member: 957"] Thank you No, I think that very much gets the point. And we get into personal preference real quick here, so I don't think my opinion applies. But I personally would still prefer to forget balance altogether and build an ideal narrative system and THEN try to figure out how to balance things later. Not everything is balanced and overwhelming force and weak spots are parts of the way things work. And even 3E has a lot of "level" to it. As I said, if they REALLY made the game I wanted then it would SUCK BADLY on the marketplace. But 3E is acceptable to me. In this thread, in this forum, my point is really tied to what makes sense for WotC trying to produce a larger fan base. And I'm a little amused by the reluctance of key portions of the 4E fanbase to allow any progress whatsoever. But I'll throw a few predictions out. The first is a gimmie. Edition "I" will move soundly away from being pure 4E. (It very likely will have a "quick and simple" alternate for a lot of things as part of serving every edition) But the idea that they will just recycle 4E isn't even thoughtful They could just continue to re-tool and not go through a fraction of the expense and PR. Not to mention the sales plumment that 4E will take effective immediately. (As 3E did the day 4E was announced) *IF* they come up with a more complex system, that appeals to lost fans but loses a lot of 4E fans, they will still end up with a bigger fan base than they have now. (That is a huge "if". I'm very interested, but PF is still awesome right now. I won't change for equity, then need BETTER. And I suspect I'm typical of non D&D players. They will look for "better".) Assuming #2 happens, a reasonable number of 4E fans who don't follow will "come around". They may not DM, but they will find that there are DMs running great games and they will follow. Keep in mind that many 4E fans were content with 3E before 4E came along. And I do expect *I* will attempt to offer something to both. (Which, of course, could be the basis for implosion as well). I do fully realize that what I'm saying here is EXACTLY the thing that 4E fans incorrectly said early on about 4E non-adopters. But I don't think it is an equal comparison and I think you will see it work better for a hypothetical "appeals to the lost 3E fans" version. (And 4E fans who NEVER liked 3E probably won't be very common amongst that "reasonable number." :) ) God, how did I pull this tangent..... :) [/QUOTE]

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