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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 9662516" data-attributes="member: 42582">A type of game that has a long heritage in RPGing, although is probably less common now, is one where the GM prepares a dungeon for exploration, with multiple paths etc, and tricks and traps, and treasure that is tricky to obtain, etc. The players' goal is to get beat the dungeon, get the treasure and thus get XP.Published scenarios to support this sort of play include B2 Keep on the Borderlands, X2 Castle Amber, S2 White Plume Mountain, the original A-series modules, and plenty of others.These games don't seem to fit your account of a sandbox. And that seems right to me, in that journeying and place are not very important to them.But they are not railroads. They are something like a wargame, but there is more than merely military/combat decision-making to take place: in at least some of them there are NPCs to speak to, perhaps manipulate or makes deals with, etc.How would you characterise them?I think your reference to PCs can do things that might otherwise be disruptive should be about players - that is, players are understood to enjoy a type of permission that is absent in a railroad/AP/DL-esque game. Note that this is also true of the dungeon crawl game. Likewise that the DM primarily acts as "referee" (in the old-school game sense), rather than as an author or guide.In the dungeon crawl game, players are also responsible for seeking out information, leads, and points of interest, although there is a type of guarantee that this stuff is there to be found (ie in the dungeon). A worry about a sandbox-y game as you describe it hear is that a lot of time might be spent at the table with the players trying to find where the actual game is. I'm thinking particularly of a possible interaction between these two:*The players themselves decide what things matter to them, and may change their minds about this *Players are responsible for seeking out information, leads, and points of interest--the DM won't throw hooks/prompts at themThe issue might also be exacerbated by just stuff that happens as the world turns - taken altogether, there's a risk that the GM presents nothing of particular interest to the players, the players decide that what matters to them is stuff which the GM is not showing any signs of, and when they seek out rumours no useful ones are to be had. Of course there are ways of correcting for this risk, and [USER=29398]@Lanefan[/USER] has mentioned one (namely, GM hooks to stuff deemed to be interesting).In my own experience, I drifted in a different direction from the sort of starting point that you describe.I also just wanted to comment on this one: "Atypical/idiosyncratic goals, like "set up a potion shop" or "sail around the world" etc., are common or even encouraged". Notice how these are "external" or  "setting-based goals" rather than internal or dramatic goals. I have found players are interested in that second sort of goal, but that can also bump into the problems I mentioned above, about the setting not providing the requisite underpinnings. This is another reason that I personally drifted in a different direction.My first thought about this would be, how did I (as in, my PC) get here, and why am I here? Presumably I had a reason for coming to the tavern, in which case I act on that reason.If my PC is a blank slate though, then the same issues arise as I mentioned above in this post. Your hooks seem similar to [USER=29398]@Lanefan[/USER]'s, although I gather you might be providing a shorter menu than him?</blockquote>

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