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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 5407729" data-attributes="member: 4937">Because, the two methods will achieve different results. And the two sorts of results and methods will be enjoyed to differing degrees by differing people.&nbsp; But, as you don't want to debate it, I won't go any further.I agree that you've given an example of how to use certain techniques to address some of the problems which arise from sandbox play, and from your description it sounds like you are having fun.&nbsp; However, claiming that because the techniques address potential limitations of sandbox play, that they are therefore 'sandbox play', is like claiming that the DL modules or the Age of Worms adventure path are sandboxes because they use techniques that address the potential limitations of sandbox play.&nbsp; Sandbox play isn't the only sort of 'good play'.&nbsp; There is no need to defensively decorate everything you do with the term.I'm here to make sure that screwdrivers don't get mistaken for hammers and vica versa.&nbsp; If you don't truly understand the tools and structures available to you as a GM, you might get the job done - you can in fact hammer things with a screwdriver - but you're going to have unexpected failures and you won't understand the cause. The short of my posts is this.&nbsp; I think you are describing potentially useful techniques for empowering players.&nbsp; However, I don't think you are describing 'sandboxing', which is a yet another set of techniques.&nbsp; Moreover, the same techniques you describe can be used for things that I consider 'railroading', and indeed have experienced occasions when they were used to disempower the players.&nbsp; (In sort of the same way that extensive preperation can be, depending on how it is used, very empowering or very disempowering to the players.)&nbsp; As you say yourself, &quot;Vitally, the GM does not try to pre-judge the outcome or possible outcomes.&quot;&nbsp;&nbsp; I think if you want to talk about what you approach actually shares with 'sandboxing', I think you have to focus on that aspect.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 5407729, member: 4937"] Because, the two methods will achieve different results. And the two sorts of results and methods will be enjoyed to differing degrees by differing people. But, as you don't want to debate it, I won't go any further. I agree that you've given an example of how to use certain techniques to address some of the problems which arise from sandbox play, and from your description it sounds like you are having fun. However, claiming that because the techniques address potential limitations of sandbox play, that they are therefore 'sandbox play', is like claiming that the DL modules or the Age of Worms adventure path are sandboxes because they use techniques that address the potential limitations of sandbox play. Sandbox play isn't the only sort of 'good play'. There is no need to defensively decorate everything you do with the term. I'm here to make sure that screwdrivers don't get mistaken for hammers and vica versa. If you don't truly understand the tools and structures available to you as a GM, you might get the job done - you can in fact hammer things with a screwdriver - but you're going to have unexpected failures and you won't understand the cause. The short of my posts is this. I think you are describing potentially useful techniques for empowering players. However, I don't think you are describing 'sandboxing', which is a yet another set of techniques. Moreover, the same techniques you describe can be used for things that I consider 'railroading', and indeed have experienced occasions when they were used to disempower the players. (In sort of the same way that extensive preperation can be, depending on how it is used, very empowering or very disempowering to the players.) As you say yourself, "Vitally, the GM does not try to pre-judge the outcome or possible outcomes." I think if you want to talk about what you approach actually shares with 'sandboxing', I think you have to focus on that aspect. [/QUOTE]

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