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<blockquote data-quote="Desdichado" data-source="post: 5130784" data-attributes="member: 2205">I'm not surprised by it either, I'm merely objecting to the use of elements that are not specific to sandboxes to, in fact, define sandboxes.As I've said before, conflating a sandbox with merely a reasonably well run game means that sandbox as a term has no usefulness whatsoever.No, I don't buy that analogy one bit.&nbsp; What I'm saying is not nearly so generic as what your analagous comparison is.I'm struggling a bit with that too, and maybe you're also mischaracterizing me a bit.&nbsp; Even in a sandbox the players knowledge of what options there are to pursue is surely limited by how much the GM is able to communicate to them, right?&nbsp; Does a sandbox game cease to be a sandbox if the players decide to follow up on the very first thing that the GM describes?&nbsp; That seems to be what you're saying.&nbsp; You also seem to be saying that if my players tell me, &quot;Y'know what, Mr. Hobo, none of those options sounds like something my character would like to do.&nbsp; How about I just attempt to kill the king and take his stuff, instead of check out all these potential adventure opportunities that he's describing to me?&quot; then my answer would have to be &quot;No, you have to&nbsp; pick one of these options.&quot;&nbsp; I can assure you, that's not true.&nbsp; If the PCs want to do something else, I can accomodate them.&nbsp; But they're picking from the options that I'm presenting them.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Desdichado, post: 5130784, member: 2205"] I'm not surprised by it either, I'm merely objecting to the use of elements that are not specific to sandboxes to, in fact, [I]define[/I] sandboxes. As I've said before, conflating a sandbox with merely a reasonably well run game means that sandbox as a term has no usefulness whatsoever. No, I don't buy that analogy one bit. What I'm saying is not nearly so generic as what your analagous comparison is. I'm struggling a bit with that too, and maybe you're also mischaracterizing me a bit. Even in a sandbox the players knowledge of what options there are to pursue is surely limited by how much the GM is able to communicate to them, right? Does a sandbox game cease to be a sandbox if the players decide to follow up on the very first thing that the GM describes? That seems to be what you're saying. You also seem to be saying that if my players tell me, "Y'know what, Mr. Hobo, none of those options sounds like something my character would like to do. How about I just attempt to kill the king and take his stuff, instead of check out all these potential adventure opportunities that he's describing to me?" then my answer would have to be "No, you have to pick one of these options." I can assure you, that's not true. If the PCs want to do something else, I can accomodate them. But they're picking from the options that I'm presenting them. [/QUOTE]

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