Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Sane Magic Item Prices
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="NotAYakk" data-source="post: 8250819" data-attributes="member: 72555"><p>Gold is as useful as</p><p>a) The friendship of a king</p><p>b) The enmity of a dragon</p><p>c) Saving the town from the orc horde</p><p>d) The ownership of a warded tower with a secure teleportation circle</p><p></p><p>Gold, as a second set of points you spend on improving your characters gear, was a D&D 3e era thing (via WBL) that 4e embraced.</p><p></p><p>First, I pointed out why the pricing in the book has problems, and how those problems are systematic.</p><p></p><p>Fundamentally, 5e magic items are not designed for christmas-tree PC builds, where you min max and optimize what items go where.</p><p></p><p>Now, 4e was; with gold growing exponentially (5x every 5 levels) and item prices likewise, and static bonuses ensuring that lower tier items had to be sold off, it was a solid "gold as character building points" system and another point of character customization, better done than either 3e (which was bolted on more than it was designed) or any set of costs for 5e items can pull off, because the items themselves where designed with that in mind.</p><p></p><p>5e attempts to return to AD&D and OD&D style magic items, but the habits of 3e and 4e players remain, and this price list is an example of it attempting to rework 5e to be more like 3e/4e.</p><p></p><p>I mean, I enjoyed both 3e and 4e, but we don't have to inflict it on 5e. And if you do inflict it on 5e, the right approach isn't "reprice 5e magic items", but make magic items that reflect a christmas tree approach and price those.</p><p></p><p>If not, guess what the correct price is for a cape of the monteback? Quite high, because every high level PC should own as many attunement-slot-free 1/day escape and conceal items they can get their hands on. Teleport, change cloak, repeat! Stuff a bag of holding full of them.</p><p></p><p>Or a potion of speed, a concentration free self cast of haste. That is +2 AC, +1 attack/round (or extra dash), double speed, dex save advantage for 1 minute (then you lose 1 round). The downsides of the spell are mostly gone (as you can't lose concentration on a potion), and for a 2-attack PC by round 2 you have caught up, and you start passing it. In the "sane magic item" prices, that is 300 gp, similar to the price of a potion of healing.</p><p></p><p>Expensive at lower levels, but in comparison to upgrading a +2 to a +3 weapon? Crazy cheap, you can own dozens and use them in every tough fight.</p><p></p><p>A price list like this instills false confidence, and at the quality provided is worse than useless. Without a price list like this, the DM might pick a value that isn't sensible, but the next time the price would be different, possibly based off of how useful the DM saw the potion was. The damage would be one over cheap haste potion in the "no price list" case, or a price that is too high to buy and no haste potion.</p><p></p><p>(Note that a haste potion can only be replaced by dragging around a 5th level indestructible spellcaster hireling, which typically can't be stored in a handy haversack; so the substitution price is very high).</p><p></p><p>...</p><p></p><p>A better, more sane, approach would when you want a magic item shop, grab the DMG tables and roll up a small treasure horde. Offer those items for sale. No sticker prices, have the NPC negotiate - use the DMG price guidelines. Items that cost too much, PCs won't buy, and that is ok. Maybe they'll steal them!</p><p></p><p>Or, your magic item shop can be "the outsider of infernal bent offers you each a +1 weapon or shield of your choice for this task".</p><p></p><p>Or, in one podcast, they had a wonderful moment when they where looting the armory and treasure vault of the one and only dracolich. There where rooms full of platinum bars and armories full of magical +1 weapons. They filled bags of holding with platinum and grabbed a bunch of +1 gear. Turns out the (spoilers) dracolich wasn't gone yet, and was watching. They could keep what they took for a "minor" task (that almost killed them).</p><p></p><p>When later they forgot about that they had a damaged soul gem (among others) of a herald of a god inside the bag, the gem exploded and magically irradiated the platinum. Good times. Good times.</p><p></p><p>No WBL, no magic item prices, just world. It made sense that this dracolich had a magical armory and horde, but wasn't that worried about it right now and needed the PCs more.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="NotAYakk, post: 8250819, member: 72555"] Gold is as useful as a) The friendship of a king b) The enmity of a dragon c) Saving the town from the orc horde d) The ownership of a warded tower with a secure teleportation circle Gold, as a second set of points you spend on improving your characters gear, was a D&D 3e era thing (via WBL) that 4e embraced. First, I pointed out why the pricing in the book has problems, and how those problems are systematic. Fundamentally, 5e magic items are not designed for christmas-tree PC builds, where you min max and optimize what items go where. Now, 4e was; with gold growing exponentially (5x every 5 levels) and item prices likewise, and static bonuses ensuring that lower tier items had to be sold off, it was a solid "gold as character building points" system and another point of character customization, better done than either 3e (which was bolted on more than it was designed) or any set of costs for 5e items can pull off, because the items themselves where designed with that in mind. 5e attempts to return to AD&D and OD&D style magic items, but the habits of 3e and 4e players remain, and this price list is an example of it attempting to rework 5e to be more like 3e/4e. I mean, I enjoyed both 3e and 4e, but we don't have to inflict it on 5e. And if you do inflict it on 5e, the right approach isn't "reprice 5e magic items", but make magic items that reflect a christmas tree approach and price those. If not, guess what the correct price is for a cape of the monteback? Quite high, because every high level PC should own as many attunement-slot-free 1/day escape and conceal items they can get their hands on. Teleport, change cloak, repeat! Stuff a bag of holding full of them. Or a potion of speed, a concentration free self cast of haste. That is +2 AC, +1 attack/round (or extra dash), double speed, dex save advantage for 1 minute (then you lose 1 round). The downsides of the spell are mostly gone (as you can't lose concentration on a potion), and for a 2-attack PC by round 2 you have caught up, and you start passing it. In the "sane magic item" prices, that is 300 gp, similar to the price of a potion of healing. Expensive at lower levels, but in comparison to upgrading a +2 to a +3 weapon? Crazy cheap, you can own dozens and use them in every tough fight. A price list like this instills false confidence, and at the quality provided is worse than useless. Without a price list like this, the DM might pick a value that isn't sensible, but the next time the price would be different, possibly based off of how useful the DM saw the potion was. The damage would be one over cheap haste potion in the "no price list" case, or a price that is too high to buy and no haste potion. (Note that a haste potion can only be replaced by dragging around a 5th level indestructible spellcaster hireling, which typically can't be stored in a handy haversack; so the substitution price is very high). ... A better, more sane, approach would when you want a magic item shop, grab the DMG tables and roll up a small treasure horde. Offer those items for sale. No sticker prices, have the NPC negotiate - use the DMG price guidelines. Items that cost too much, PCs won't buy, and that is ok. Maybe they'll steal them! Or, your magic item shop can be "the outsider of infernal bent offers you each a +1 weapon or shield of your choice for this task". Or, in one podcast, they had a wonderful moment when they where looting the armory and treasure vault of the one and only dracolich. There where rooms full of platinum bars and armories full of magical +1 weapons. They filled bags of holding with platinum and grabbed a bunch of +1 gear. Turns out the (spoilers) dracolich wasn't gone yet, and was watching. They could keep what they took for a "minor" task (that almost killed them). When later they forgot about that they had a damaged soul gem (among others) of a herald of a god inside the bag, the gem exploded and magically irradiated the platinum. Good times. Good times. No WBL, no magic item prices, just world. It made sense that this dracolich had a magical armory and horde, but wasn't that worried about it right now and needed the PCs more. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Sane Magic Item Prices
Top