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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Stalker0" data-source="post: 8261157" data-attributes="member: 5889">Depends on the class of course (there's always a wizard casting sleep), but I would say its not until you get to 5th level (second attack, 3rd level spells) that a character would have a reasonable chance against 4 1st level PCs. The force multiplier effect in 5e is very very very strong.So I'll pitch my hat into this argument, as I have used large groups of 1st level schlubs on several occasions, both against my pcs and against monsters.Now melee guys, they are mince meat. But archers? Watch out. You give them some open terrain to spread out, and you are in trouble. Assuming 20 archers +4 (+2 base, +2 dex) against a AC 19 (a good solid AC for PCs, and exceptionally high for most monsters, that's CR 15+ level ACs normally). That means you are getting 5 hits and a crit each round on average, or about 43.5 damage....better than fireball. Add another 6.5 damage for every point of AC lower than that, so a perfect 50 at AC 18. You give me your 5th level Greatsword fighter (AC 18), and I will statistically drop him in round 1, with a reasonable chance to kill him if the dice go my way just a bit.Now a single 43.5 damage barrage is decent, but the trick is its hard to kill a large group of archers that are spread out, so your going to get that damage round after round, and suddenly it starts to matter a lot.So obviously a group like this isn't going into a cave to hunt monsters. But if I have an open field, I'll take that 20 guys against a lot of stuff. People talk about monster fighting intelligently against them, but the thing is the longbow outranges almost every other attack in the game. Anywhere you try to maneuver to hit the archers..... the entire archer line is likely to be able to hit you.</blockquote>

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