NOW LIVE! -- ZEITGEIST: Death of the Author for D&D 5E on Kickstarter! Murder. Conspiracy. Secrets. A remote manor. An adventure for D&D 5E.

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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 8261250" data-attributes="member: 6801228">So, you want to claim my example doesn't work, because of your interpretation of what I said before I even gave the example? Because, unless you have the ability to rewrite history, I never once said anything about "bottom of the barrel mercenaries" and I really have no interest in changing the entire premise of my example just because you decided I should.Effective is effective. And the money issue is the point. The proposition I was responding to was "if they have enough gold, this is what they will do" so the entire point is assuming enough money. The only reason I even gave prices was because you were saying this couldn't possibly happen until mid to late game. Well, it can happen in the early part of the mid game.And most players are intelligent and will work to decieve and counter them. What's your point? A small group (because in war terms, 35 people is a small group) can't beat an intelligent enemy because they are too smart for them? You can't possibly overcome a giant fortress because they are just so smart that if you bring more than 4 to 6 people they will instantly crush you? Assuming victory is assured and therefore the tactic is worthless is pretty much a non-argument. I can use the same logic to declare that the PCs fail.The bone devil is where I got that 5 from. Also, again, declaring victory because you assume the players are too stupid to outsmart you. Oh, and I never once made the claim of them being computer bots with no thoughts. Because, again, you are discounting the players as a non-factor. DnD is a world where we fully expect sentient, fully intelligent beings to serve evil masters. Constantly. A speech by a bard with assistance from a cleric and this isn't a a death mission, it is a holy crusade blessed by the Gods and you get paid for it. Heck, people join the military all the time, that can get you killed too. It isn't that there is no possible way for these individuals to be convinced into going, it is that you don't want them to go, so you say it is impossible.Yeah, just people who will go and fight for money... isn't that exactly what adventurers do? Get hired to go and fight things for money? Bandits, goblins, ect? "Oh, but those are small threats, not like this big threats". Um, sure, but notice how your adventurers started getting hired for small threats, then got hired for big threats? Not seeing a compelling point here.I could also assume a 70% hit rate. But the math is harder and I figured everyone in this thread is big enough to do their own accuracy math if they felt like it. I never lied, I never tried to hide the fact that I was assuming 100% hit rate. Stop harping on it. I can decide how I want to lay out my own examples, I decided to save time by not assuming an AC, and just calculating the damage, I wasn't confusing or misleading anyone. They wanted to do the AC calculations for the "real" number, they could do it themselves.PHB excerpts: "Other hirelings provide more expert or dangerous services. Mercenary soldiers paid to help the adventurers take on a hobgoblin army are hirelings.....Skilled hirelings include anyone hired to perform a service that involves a proficiency (including weapon, tool, or skill): a mercenary, artisan, scribe, and so on. The pay shown is a minimum; some expert hirelings require more pay."Who is a Scout? According to their entry: "Scouts are skilled hunters and trackers who offer their services for a fee. Most hunt wild game, but a few work as bounty hunters, serve as guides, or provide military reconnaissance."And, you will remember, waaaay back at the start of this example, I acknowledged your point about them being more expensive, and have been charging 6 gp a day. So, you want to tell me that the skilled hunter who is potentially a bounty hunter is so good, that I should be paying them more than 3 times the basic price? So, according the logic you keep spouting, Anyone who can swing a sword is 2 gp a day, a bottom feeder, rock bottom mercenary is 6 gp a day (the number I've been using) and there for a Scout should be, what? 10 gp a day? Enough to live like an Aristocrat? Man, the Thayan military has to be shelling out 15 or 20 gold a day to hire their Warriors, those guys are CR 2 and at least twice as good as the scouts. What do you think a CR 5 gladiator makes? 45 gp a day? Or, maybe, just maybe, 6 gold per day isn't unreasonable for a CR 1/2 merc. And by "experts" they were talking about some of these CR 3 to 9 individuals? Also, the CR to level conversion is coming from spells like Polymorph. That is the method they have used. Not saying it is perfect, just saying that is what I have seen used.I love how you can read my point, then dismiss it as though I didn't say anything. I never said it was the only thing you could do with money. This entire example has been about showing this ONE THING isn't something that the players WILL EVEN ATTEMPT because of how they are approaching the game DESPITE being effective. I guess I will just keep repeating myself until you realize what I am saying, and stop trying to argue against what you seem to think I am saying.Why do you keep assuming that a group of level 6 to 8 adventurers can't outsmart anyone, and just charge in blindly with a full frontal assault? You claim to DM, are you trying to say that players have not once ever come up with a plan you didn't expect to outsmart your villains? This is a hypothetical example simply showing the math. I'm not going to assume one way or the other about how the players accomplish their goals. Or the scenario the fight takes place in.Of course, I always forget that everything must always work against the players, and every fight must take place in 5 ft wide 15 ft long zigzagging hallways. It is right there in my "How to DM" manual. How could I possibly forget? /SarcasmCool, never said it was. I actually responded to most of the list of seven or eight things that I was given at the time for what was incredibly broken about getting large sums of money. Problem was, a good couple of them were based on assumptions of older editions, like masterwork items, or ignored the design features of 5e, like bounded accuracy. So, those just quietly faded away and then you decided that by responding to eight items I must clearly only have a single thing I think money can be used for. Maybe listen to what I have been saying, it might make this whole process a lot easier.</blockquote>

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