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Sanity Checking some Monster Damages
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<blockquote data-quote="keterys" data-source="post: 4929760" data-attributes="member: 43019"><p>I actually have a separate test I was doing for atwill or limited attacks that dealt too much potential damage, ignoring the average damage for 3 rounds that I was testing here... usually by comparing the amount of damage to whether it's all that possible to outright kill someone by either hitting them twice, critting them once, what have you. The deathjump does actually trigger that one for certain level ranges, though not quite as much of a red flag as the needlefang. I have to tune that one a bit, though, because the higher level data was just... odd.</p><p></p><p>I mean, if someone has 180 hp, what's actually too much damage? 60 is less than a healing power (surge+15) at that level, 90 or less ensures death does not occur unless it's via ongoing or hitting someone already down / coup de grace... very few creatures even remotely come close. So I hadn't enabled that check yet. </p><p></p><p>Or, the three specters invisibly and phasingly move up and spectral barrage the other 4 members of the party, taking 3 of them down. The defender still has some hp, though he's prone and might not get to act before they go again in the non-surprise round.</p><p></p><p>Though I suppose there'd be 5 of them if they're fighting a party of 5? That's even less pretty.</p><p></p><p>They're at +8 against him, even including him being surprised, so more like 1.5 hit... but sure, the rogue has a 1/8 chance of dying outright say. Which is pretty darn mean and definitely undesirable.</p><p></p><p>Weirdly, if one of them crits, he's almost certainly alive, because then a 2nd hit would just drop him to dying and he'd have a couple rounds to get healed.</p><p></p><p>1 in 64 chance now...</p><p></p><p>The way creatures tend to work is those that are unpredictable burst damage like the deathjumps tend to get _someone_ (singular) killed, but rarely TPK since everyone has to die for a TPK. You need the whole party overmatched for that to happen. Which is a lot more likely with needlefangs and hobgoblin warcasters than deathjumps.</p><p></p><p>Wolves don't do a pile of damage when someone is prone. They do perfectly normal damage when someone is prone. When someone is not prone they do awful damage.</p><p></p><p>Yep - people need the possibility of some spiking. At the moment I'm just looking at average damage, though. </p><p></p><p>You haven't played a module where your party started grouped up going somewhere, for whatever reason, and you fought 3-6 fire beetles, all who got to go before you did, have you? I have twice <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> Healers tend to have limited abilities to heal a group, but are very very good at healing a single target. Both types of damage matter a lot.</p><p></p><p>This particular test is not what you're looking for, yes. I started off comparing expected damage of a critter over a combat so I could compare _resource expenditure_, simplified as surges spent per combat. I do have what you're looking for - max damages - but so far they seem to only be meaningful at low level. Granted, I've only given low level examples so far, but I'm still trying to make the spreadsheet cover all levels so I focused first on that.</p><p></p><p>I'll mess around with the max statistics soon, to see which others it brings up. </p><p></p><p>In truth, I actually expected more to find a lot of things that needed their damages bumped up. It's been my general feeling that too many monster manual monsters are just _not_ threatening.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No problem. Thank you very much for helping me improve it. I banged out the first 5 levels today. I don't know that I'll get more done over the weekend, but I'm looking forward to getting it as workable as possible so I can share the results.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="keterys, post: 4929760, member: 43019"] I actually have a separate test I was doing for atwill or limited attacks that dealt too much potential damage, ignoring the average damage for 3 rounds that I was testing here... usually by comparing the amount of damage to whether it's all that possible to outright kill someone by either hitting them twice, critting them once, what have you. The deathjump does actually trigger that one for certain level ranges, though not quite as much of a red flag as the needlefang. I have to tune that one a bit, though, because the higher level data was just... odd. I mean, if someone has 180 hp, what's actually too much damage? 60 is less than a healing power (surge+15) at that level, 90 or less ensures death does not occur unless it's via ongoing or hitting someone already down / coup de grace... very few creatures even remotely come close. So I hadn't enabled that check yet. Or, the three specters invisibly and phasingly move up and spectral barrage the other 4 members of the party, taking 3 of them down. The defender still has some hp, though he's prone and might not get to act before they go again in the non-surprise round. Though I suppose there'd be 5 of them if they're fighting a party of 5? That's even less pretty. They're at +8 against him, even including him being surprised, so more like 1.5 hit... but sure, the rogue has a 1/8 chance of dying outright say. Which is pretty darn mean and definitely undesirable. Weirdly, if one of them crits, he's almost certainly alive, because then a 2nd hit would just drop him to dying and he'd have a couple rounds to get healed. 1 in 64 chance now... The way creatures tend to work is those that are unpredictable burst damage like the deathjumps tend to get _someone_ (singular) killed, but rarely TPK since everyone has to die for a TPK. You need the whole party overmatched for that to happen. Which is a lot more likely with needlefangs and hobgoblin warcasters than deathjumps. Wolves don't do a pile of damage when someone is prone. They do perfectly normal damage when someone is prone. When someone is not prone they do awful damage. Yep - people need the possibility of some spiking. At the moment I'm just looking at average damage, though. You haven't played a module where your party started grouped up going somewhere, for whatever reason, and you fought 3-6 fire beetles, all who got to go before you did, have you? I have twice :) Healers tend to have limited abilities to heal a group, but are very very good at healing a single target. Both types of damage matter a lot. This particular test is not what you're looking for, yes. I started off comparing expected damage of a critter over a combat so I could compare _resource expenditure_, simplified as surges spent per combat. I do have what you're looking for - max damages - but so far they seem to only be meaningful at low level. Granted, I've only given low level examples so far, but I'm still trying to make the spreadsheet cover all levels so I focused first on that. I'll mess around with the max statistics soon, to see which others it brings up. In truth, I actually expected more to find a lot of things that needed their damages bumped up. It's been my general feeling that too many monster manual monsters are just _not_ threatening. No problem. Thank you very much for helping me improve it. I banged out the first 5 levels today. I don't know that I'll get more done over the weekend, but I'm looking forward to getting it as workable as possible so I can share the results. [/QUOTE]
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