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Sanity in 4e
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<blockquote data-quote="enigma5915" data-source="post: 5441140" data-attributes="member: 60095"><p>Hey, this isn't my account, but the owner is in the campaign I am currently orchestrating and brought your post to my attention since we adapted a similar system ourselves for a very similar, but completely homebrew setting.</p><p> </p><p>For me, I find simplicity is sexy. I also find CoC's Sanity rules ridiculous. People don't lose their <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> temporarily at the drop of a hat, regardless of what is going on. I look at Sanity as a stuggle that should be endured throughout the characters existence, and acknowledge that Insanity can often times manifest itself in nuanced and imperceptable ways unless scrutinised under a microscope. Furthermore, one's personal limit is going to differ from anothers.</p><p> </p><p>Also, I have two Sanity levels I track. One for the individual, which prompts alot of pre-made notes to be prepared for issuance at appointed times (since my system doesn't allow one to lose or gain Sanity in great amounts, going into a session I usually have a good idea where an individual's Sanity level will be when they come across something). And another Sanity level for the party, which affects the tone of the narrative I give and how they will perceive the events carrying forth around them.</p><p> </p><p>Also, with my system nothing ends at madness. Thats just their character, if I have done my job right, whatever madness they bcome afflicted with should dovetail into their RPing in such a way that it enhances, rather than ends, their conceptual model. While their Sanity is in the positives, everytime it drops a significant percentile, they pick up Eccentricities (fondness for a *lucky* item, unwillingness to sleep out of doors, insistance on raw food, desire to dismember corpses to ensure they don't rise again, a messianic complex, a suspicious nature et cetera) which are selected based upon their experiences IC, actions and previous roleplaying. Once their Sanity reaches into the negatives, they accrue Dementias such as Paranoia, Schizophrenia, Hebephrenia et cetera. </p><p> </p><p>Below is how I explained it to the party in an email once I made it solid enough to satisfy by needs.</p><p> </p><p>SANITY: This variable will dictate how one interprets events, actions and individuals within the game. While there are some practical considerations which will affect game play for the most part it falls most heavily upon role play. For instance, one might over time lose sufficient Sanity that they develop certain disorders such as, but certainly not limited to, Night-terrors, Insomnia and Amnesia. As a result of not being able to sleep, you may suffer neg1 to perception and lose a single daily healing surge as long as it persists -taken to an extreme where so much sanity is lost that sleep becomes impossible, you may not be able to naturally regain healing surges at all in addition to gaining penalties to all skills requiring concentration. Amnesia would require another party member to assist skill rolls with a mandatory aide check of their own to illustrate how the player is having growing difficulty acting independently. Full memory loss would of course result in the loss of all skills and abilities, but not that lovely smile!</p><p> </p><p>The party's general level of sanity will impact the narrative of the game. Exceptions will be dealt with on an individual basis by the DM {me!} through notes or text. For instance, if all the party members as a whole have attained the paranoid Dementia, then rather than describing a town as being prosaic and calm, I might say that everyone the party runs across seems to eye them suspiciously or make a sign of warding as they pass, but too briefly to be caught doing so and that they feel unseen eyes monitoring their progress through the town. If the players act upon the information in a way which make their actions further aberrant from the norm, they may lose further loss of sanity, if they try to remain indifferent to the suspicions of the town folk and act normally the Sanity level may maintain an unchanged equilibrium, and if they go out of their way to earn their trust, they may recoup lost Sanity upon discovering that they were never mistrusted at all. All descriptions received in game are given according to the general perspective of the party, not necessarily an absolute reflection of what is happening. A player always has the option to make, at any time, an unmodified will save (d20+will modifer against DC 15) to "disbelieve" or question what they are perceiving. </p><p> </p><p>Another way of explaining it is this. The party needs some information an individual possesses, and in order to act on it, they need to know it is true. Within the bowels of a cultist cathedral, they came across a ritual which will force someone to utter only such things as they believe to be true which causes the party to then speculate on whether or not it would be worth performing (animal sacrifice and dismemberment being a couple of the active ingredients). A grounded, rational mind would immediately dismiss such an idea as ludicrous, the NPCs with a broader range of experiences and understanding, may be open to the possibility it could work. That openness the party has is thanks in part to their eroding sanity and light hearted acceptance of reality's malleability. Discussing the merits of the idea would not result in Sanity loss. . .Going through with it obviously would -if it worked. </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>STARTING SANITY PTS:</p><p> </p><p>Sanity is one's mental wellness. Obviously, they have to be chemically stable (CON) and possess some conviction of mind (WIS), so take the modifiers of both and multiply them times ten. Say Brian has a Con of 12 and a Wis of 14, his Sanity would then be X=10(2+1) or 30. He would probably be better off not becoming an arcane class since he would lose a point for each combat spell power he possesses, each ritual he knows, and one for every two points he spends in Arcana. Fortunately though, no matter what he chooses, he cannot start in the negatives. . . without really, really trying. </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>WAYS TO LOSE SANITY: </p><p> </p><p>-Roleplay</p><p>[When you act on crazy <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" />, you are crazy; QED. Trust and believe as the DM I will be telling you cRaZy <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> all the time, but how you use that information will dictate your own level of Sanity.]</p><p> </p><p>-Inhuman Acts</p><p>-Pathological Behaviour </p><p>[These two aren't as severe as others, but potentially very limiting. Of all Dementia PCs can accrue, becoming a psychopath is probably the most benign as most players are little better than serial killers anyway and probably won't notice the transition at all. However it will impact how various NPCs view and interact with you as well as any reputation fame/infamy you might forge]</p><p> </p><p>-Learning Forbidden Knowledge</p><p>-Witnessing Anything Outside of the Natural Occouring Contextual Paradigm</p><p>[Initial contact with beings such as Demons, the Undead, Reapers, Soothsayers, Thinnies, Elder Things, Corrupted Things, Tainted Ones etc or the first time one witnesses Ritualistic killings/sacrifice, summonings of outer-planar entities, communique with the gods etc. For the most part Sanity is lost only upon first coming across these things, however a second point will be lost for engaging with (including combat) or participating in any of the above as well.]</p><p> </p><p>-Using Magic</p><p>-Accumulating Arcane Knowledge</p><p>[These two will result in the least amount of Sanity lost, however, all points accumulating in this fashion are sacrificed forever and cannot in anyway be regained.]</p><p> </p><p>What is seen cannot be unseen, there is no mind bleach in this campaign, so all Sanity loss is permanent. However, there are ways to regain, and simply retain, one's grip on the real world assuming they have not willingly forfeited their claim on Sanity themselves.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>WAYS TO REGAIN SANITY:</p><p> </p><p>-Roleplay</p><p>[Clinging to one's convictions even in the face of what seems to incontrovertible evidence might seem irrational. . .unless of course one is right, or hiding from the implications of greater truths behind the comfort of normality]</p><p> </p><p>-1pt per level; however this cannot raise one's sanity above its starting value, only replenish it.</p><p> </p><p>WAYS TO POSSIBLY REGAIN SANITY:</p><p> </p><p>-Prolonged Isolation from the Supernatural</p><p>[Maybe it was all a dream. . . Certainly it seemed much worse at the time. . .And it was awfully dark]</p><p> </p><p>-Acts of Benevolence</p><p>[Well I suppose if the Elder Gods really need a virgin. . .wait. . .]</p><p> </p><p>-Religious Adherence</p><p>[Dogmatic rigidity may result in mental atrophy, but it will keep you sane, unless of course it doesn't.]</p><p> </p><p>Contact with Humanity</p><p>[Clean up on isle four, clean up on isle four, can't possibly lose my mind doing simple tedious <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> in a grocery store. . .]</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="enigma5915, post: 5441140, member: 60095"] Hey, this isn't my account, but the owner is in the campaign I am currently orchestrating and brought your post to my attention since we adapted a similar system ourselves for a very similar, but completely homebrew setting. For me, I find simplicity is sexy. I also find CoC's Sanity rules ridiculous. People don't lose their :):):):) temporarily at the drop of a hat, regardless of what is going on. I look at Sanity as a stuggle that should be endured throughout the characters existence, and acknowledge that Insanity can often times manifest itself in nuanced and imperceptable ways unless scrutinised under a microscope. Furthermore, one's personal limit is going to differ from anothers. Also, I have two Sanity levels I track. One for the individual, which prompts alot of pre-made notes to be prepared for issuance at appointed times (since my system doesn't allow one to lose or gain Sanity in great amounts, going into a session I usually have a good idea where an individual's Sanity level will be when they come across something). And another Sanity level for the party, which affects the tone of the narrative I give and how they will perceive the events carrying forth around them. Also, with my system nothing ends at madness. Thats just their character, if I have done my job right, whatever madness they bcome afflicted with should dovetail into their RPing in such a way that it enhances, rather than ends, their conceptual model. While their Sanity is in the positives, everytime it drops a significant percentile, they pick up Eccentricities (fondness for a *lucky* item, unwillingness to sleep out of doors, insistance on raw food, desire to dismember corpses to ensure they don't rise again, a messianic complex, a suspicious nature et cetera) which are selected based upon their experiences IC, actions and previous roleplaying. Once their Sanity reaches into the negatives, they accrue Dementias such as Paranoia, Schizophrenia, Hebephrenia et cetera. Below is how I explained it to the party in an email once I made it solid enough to satisfy by needs. SANITY: This variable will dictate how one interprets events, actions and individuals within the game. While there are some practical considerations which will affect game play for the most part it falls most heavily upon role play. For instance, one might over time lose sufficient Sanity that they develop certain disorders such as, but certainly not limited to, Night-terrors, Insomnia and Amnesia. As a result of not being able to sleep, you may suffer neg1 to perception and lose a single daily healing surge as long as it persists -taken to an extreme where so much sanity is lost that sleep becomes impossible, you may not be able to naturally regain healing surges at all in addition to gaining penalties to all skills requiring concentration. Amnesia would require another party member to assist skill rolls with a mandatory aide check of their own to illustrate how the player is having growing difficulty acting independently. Full memory loss would of course result in the loss of all skills and abilities, but not that lovely smile! The party's general level of sanity will impact the narrative of the game. Exceptions will be dealt with on an individual basis by the DM {me!} through notes or text. For instance, if all the party members as a whole have attained the paranoid Dementia, then rather than describing a town as being prosaic and calm, I might say that everyone the party runs across seems to eye them suspiciously or make a sign of warding as they pass, but too briefly to be caught doing so and that they feel unseen eyes monitoring their progress through the town. If the players act upon the information in a way which make their actions further aberrant from the norm, they may lose further loss of sanity, if they try to remain indifferent to the suspicions of the town folk and act normally the Sanity level may maintain an unchanged equilibrium, and if they go out of their way to earn their trust, they may recoup lost Sanity upon discovering that they were never mistrusted at all. All descriptions received in game are given according to the general perspective of the party, not necessarily an absolute reflection of what is happening. A player always has the option to make, at any time, an unmodified will save (d20+will modifer against DC 15) to "disbelieve" or question what they are perceiving. Another way of explaining it is this. The party needs some information an individual possesses, and in order to act on it, they need to know it is true. Within the bowels of a cultist cathedral, they came across a ritual which will force someone to utter only such things as they believe to be true which causes the party to then speculate on whether or not it would be worth performing (animal sacrifice and dismemberment being a couple of the active ingredients). A grounded, rational mind would immediately dismiss such an idea as ludicrous, the NPCs with a broader range of experiences and understanding, may be open to the possibility it could work. That openness the party has is thanks in part to their eroding sanity and light hearted acceptance of reality's malleability. Discussing the merits of the idea would not result in Sanity loss. . .Going through with it obviously would -if it worked. STARTING SANITY PTS: Sanity is one's mental wellness. Obviously, they have to be chemically stable (CON) and possess some conviction of mind (WIS), so take the modifiers of both and multiply them times ten. Say Brian has a Con of 12 and a Wis of 14, his Sanity would then be X=10(2+1) or 30. He would probably be better off not becoming an arcane class since he would lose a point for each combat spell power he possesses, each ritual he knows, and one for every two points he spends in Arcana. Fortunately though, no matter what he chooses, he cannot start in the negatives. . . without really, really trying. WAYS TO LOSE SANITY: -Roleplay [When you act on crazy :):):):), you are crazy; QED. Trust and believe as the DM I will be telling you cRaZy :):):):) all the time, but how you use that information will dictate your own level of Sanity.] -Inhuman Acts -Pathological Behaviour [These two aren't as severe as others, but potentially very limiting. Of all Dementia PCs can accrue, becoming a psychopath is probably the most benign as most players are little better than serial killers anyway and probably won't notice the transition at all. However it will impact how various NPCs view and interact with you as well as any reputation fame/infamy you might forge] -Learning Forbidden Knowledge -Witnessing Anything Outside of the Natural Occouring Contextual Paradigm [Initial contact with beings such as Demons, the Undead, Reapers, Soothsayers, Thinnies, Elder Things, Corrupted Things, Tainted Ones etc or the first time one witnesses Ritualistic killings/sacrifice, summonings of outer-planar entities, communique with the gods etc. For the most part Sanity is lost only upon first coming across these things, however a second point will be lost for engaging with (including combat) or participating in any of the above as well.] -Using Magic -Accumulating Arcane Knowledge [These two will result in the least amount of Sanity lost, however, all points accumulating in this fashion are sacrificed forever and cannot in anyway be regained.] What is seen cannot be unseen, there is no mind bleach in this campaign, so all Sanity loss is permanent. However, there are ways to regain, and simply retain, one's grip on the real world assuming they have not willingly forfeited their claim on Sanity themselves. WAYS TO REGAIN SANITY: -Roleplay [Clinging to one's convictions even in the face of what seems to incontrovertible evidence might seem irrational. . .unless of course one is right, or hiding from the implications of greater truths behind the comfort of normality] -1pt per level; however this cannot raise one's sanity above its starting value, only replenish it. WAYS TO POSSIBLY REGAIN SANITY: -Prolonged Isolation from the Supernatural [Maybe it was all a dream. . . Certainly it seemed much worse at the time. . .And it was awfully dark] -Acts of Benevolence [Well I suppose if the Elder Gods really need a virgin. . .wait. . .] -Religious Adherence [Dogmatic rigidity may result in mental atrophy, but it will keep you sane, unless of course it doesn't.] Contact with Humanity [Clean up on isle four, clean up on isle four, can't possibly lose my mind doing simple tedious :):):):) in a grocery store. . .] [/QUOTE]
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