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Message: <blockquote data-quote="BryonD" data-source="post: 720023" data-attributes="member: 957">OK, Now you are agreeing with my original point.Quite simply, Table 2-2 is inconsitent between 1 HD monsters and others.For >1 HD monsters level = starting ECL+class levels.For 1HD monsters level = starting ECL + class levels -1.Please quote a reference that states that every monster starts with 1 hit dice.I think this is the crux of your error:Class levels are not included in the STARTING ECL.  A <monster> Fighter 1 has an ECL = 1 + STARTING ECL.If <monster> = bugbear then STARTING ECL = 4 and ECL = 5.If <monster> = elf then we know that ECL = 1 so we know that STARTING ECL must equal 0.If I tell you I want to make a Fighter 1 character for your game and that on Table 2-2 the Starting ECL for the race I have chosen is 3, what is the overall level of my character?This statement is also incorrect:Starting ECL is the ECL of the creature when your start designing a character.  Look at the Bugbear example on page 24.  The Starting ECL of a bugbear is 4.  You could start play as a classless bugbear with an ECL of level 4.  But if you add a class, as is typically assumed, and as is assumed in the example, the ECL when you start playing them is 5 (Starting ECL +1).</blockquote>