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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Scion" data-source="post: 1499594" data-attributes="member: 5777">Dont compare anything useing the fighter, as written the fighter is currently only a marginal step above an npc class anyway. But that is a topic for another thread <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> I prefer comparing useing the barbarian anyway, it is easier.With that comparison, and at +2, the halfogre is rediculously behind at early levels. At later levels it is even more paramount because all of the halfogres bonuses, and more, can be gained by a simple, low level, spell. Trading in 2 levels for that is just.. well.. bad.Even without the spell though the other comparisons are striking. They are behind by 2hd and 2x con (giving equal starting cons this evens out at 'very' high levels, until then the nonhalfogre is ahead, sometimes a very large amount), they are behind by 2 BAB (this effects many feats and multiple attacks, having 2 attacks at a slightly lower damage is preferable over one attack at slightly more a good portion of the time, useing the proper feats the damage issue becomes less paramount as well), 2 levels of class abilities (for the barb this is things like uncanny dodge, new rages, DR, and so forth.. some levels this is such an extreme difference as to be laughable), 2 levels of skill points (that, and the halfogre has an int penalty, way behind in skill points, at higher levels the nonhalfogre could have double the skill points!), behind by a feat most of the time, behind by half of a stat point, behind by 1 point in good saves all of the time and a point in bad saves most of the time.At +1 they are pretty strong. Too strong? depends on the campaign. At +2 they are just laughably weak in comparison. So given the choice between +2 or 2 racial hd it is pretty obvious, as that at least allows them to stay even in a couple of the areas. Personally I like to make all halfogres also feral <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> It actually winds up making the character pretty equal to what a +2 should be, as some of their bonuses simply cancel.</blockquote>

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