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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 713624" data-attributes="member: 4937">The big problem with the CR, EL, ECL system has always been that they do not actually scale in a linear fashion.  Four CR 4 challenges _might_ be equal to a CR 8 challenge (but probably not), but four CR 1 challenges may actually be weaker than a CR _3_ challenge, but 4 CR 16 challenges are together probably much more dangerous than a CR 18 or even CR 20 challenge.  A 2nd level warrior is probably as tough as a CR 1 monster, but a 20th level warrior is probably no worse than a CR 10 monster.  A 3rd level character may well be three times as powerful as a 1st level character, but a 20th level character is not three times more powerful than a 18th level character.  A race with +4 ECL is not at first level nearly as powerful as a 5th level character with a +0 ECL race, but a 16th level character with a +4 ECL race/template is often more powerful (sometimes much more) powerful than a 20th level character with a +0 ECL race.I haven't seen savage species, but if they haven't tried to fix this basic problem then they almost certainly stretched the system way past the breaking point.</blockquote>