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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hardhead" data-source="post: 736827" data-attributes="member: 2844">The problem with erring on the low side is that it means that exotic races will be better choices for the players.  I don't think the standard PHB races should be made obsolete by "power creep."  And the dumb thing is, there's no reason the H/Ogre should stradle the line.  It wasnt' a previously existing monster they tried to assign an ECL for.  It was designed from the ground up.  They could have made it a bit more powerful and put it more firmly in the ECL 2 category.  Or they could have designed it to be a little less powerful and more firmly in the ECL 1 category.  But besides that, yeah, I think they're a "no brainer at ECL 1.  Compare to characters with a 16 strength before racial adjustments:A second level half-orc fighter would have an attack roll of +7. (+4 strength, +2 BAB, Weapon Focus). The half-Ogre would have an attack of +7 (+6 str, +1 BAB, Weapon Focus, -1 size). The half-orc deals an average of 8.5 damage (1d8+4 damage with his longsword). The half ogre deals an average damage of 13 (2d6+6) with his greatsword he wields in one hand.The half-orc has one more feat.The half-ogre is unaffected by spells and effects that only work on medium sized humanoids, such as Charm and Hold Person.The AC of the half-orcis 21 (full plate armor, large steel shield, 12-13 dex). The Ogre has an AC of 23 (full plate armor, large steel shield, +4 nat armor, 10-11 dex, -1 size). It would be one higher if the player had the brains to put a 14-15 into their dex before racial adjustments, or they used the new armor from Arms and Equipment that proveded a +9 armor bonus and a max dex bonus of +0.The half-orc has a reach of 5'. The half-ogre a reach of 10'.The half-orc, with a con of 10, has 14.5 hit points on average. The half-Ogre has 11.So, the Ogre looses out slightly in HP (but beats him soundly in AC, so that should even it out, and as levels progress, he'll catch up and pass the half-orc's HP due to the con bonus). He'll be either one feat behind, or no feats behind, alternating every other level (so, he looses half a feat, on average). I think that's definitly a no brainer.  If he was ECL 2, he'd fall one more HD behind, have one less to-hit than the half-ogre, and be one more feat behind him.  He'd still have a better AC, damage, immunities, reach, ect.  His HP would still eventually catch up due to the CON bonus.  At this point, I still think the H/Ogre would be better, to be honest, but then I'd at least be thinking about it.  So ECL 2 sounds good to me.</blockquote>

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