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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Spatula" data-source="post: 739105" data-attributes="member: 2198">The book is actually very vague on the tests.  It just says "which would you rather play?" and provides some broad points of comparison.  Exact stats, equipment, race, etc. are not mentioned.  What the book gives you is a broad overview and is not very useful except as a guideline.  You need to have some concrete examples of X vs Y in order to come to a conclusion - thus my example.I chose all 10's in stats because it keeps the math simple and clearly shows how ability score bonuses affect the numbers.  If you use the standard stat array or something else, then you introduce more variables - what's the optimal placement of stats?  It's not necessarily the same for both sides of the comparison.I chose the half-orc to compare the half-ogre against because it cuts down on the variables.  If you use humans instead, for example, you have to figure out how to weigh darkvision, the stats, and the rest against the extra feat and skill points.  While the half-ogre already has everything the half-orc does, plus more.  It's the "more" that is the issue, after all.  If you compare against no race as you suggest, then the half-ogre looks even better as you're comparing it against a less than 0 ECL "race."I was vague on equipment because some of it (huge longbow, mighty huge longbow) can't be priced.  The only real decision here is that both use the best one-handed sword and best non-mighty bow available to them.I chose fighter.  Simpler to compare number of feats, rather than various barbarian class abilities, vs the half-ogre's "more".That's what I did... initially the half-ogre clocks in at +3, so I compared at +3 (half-ogre F1 vs half-orc F4).  +3 is too much, so I compared at +2 (looked good to me but others disagree), then at +1.  Just as Savage Species tells you to.  See - I can follow directions after all. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Someone mentions armor prices in a later post, however that only matters in the +1 LA case.  At +2 or +3, a 1st level half-ogre can afford magic armor, and magic armor automatically resizes to fit the wearer.  So no "double cost" for armor - the half-ogre PC just buys a magical medium-sized suit.  And in the +1 case, the "other side" of the comparison can't afford full-plate anyway.EDIT: tag errors</blockquote>

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