Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Rocket your D&D 5E and Level Up: Advanced 5E games into space! Alpha Star Magazine Is Launching... Right Now!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Savage Species: Playing Monstrous Heroes
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Ahnehnois" data-source="post: 2010217" data-attributes="member: 17106"><p>I wasn't planning on buying this book. When I did, I was pleasantly surprised.</p><p></p><p>Savage Species is the D&D sourcebook on playing monstous characters. It's a pretty decent value at $29.95 US for a 224 page hardcover book. It has, in general, very good art. I'm not an art critic, but nothing stood out as being silly or poorly drawn (as did, say the MM2 gem dragons or the epic iconic characters). Some of it was pretty amusing, as the artists had some fun with the topic of monsters as player characters. The cover shows a troll divided into two halves (like Alhandra on the cover of the ELH). One half is an ordinary troll with a tree-brach club on the ground next to him; the other half is a troll fighter with armor and a sword. The editing was noticably bad, with random underscores throughout the book and numerous other typos. It has a confusing and sometimes senseless organization, having a whopping 11 chapters and 3 appendices. The production quality of this book is not really awful, but it's not very good either.</p><p></p><p>This book has the odd distinction of trying to be forward compatible with 3.5e D&D. It includes some previews of the new edition, such as changed face and reach, new skills, and the treatment of monster hit dice in a way that more resembles the way class levels work. It also includes vague information that I hope will become clarified in 3.5e, such as a feat referring to Improved Evasion as allowing you to reroll a save. I'm not sure how many of the monster references are consistent with the new Monster Manual, but some aren't consistent with the old one. Overall, it's not 100% 3.5e compatible, but it does well enough to make it worth buying.</p><p></p><p>A Chapter-by-Chapter Overview:</p><p></p><p>The Introduction</p><p>Among the normal things, the intro outlines the 3.5e changes that are reflected in the pages to come. That was thoughtful.</p><p></p><p>Chapter 1: Character Creation (4 pages)</p><p>Basically like the start of the PHB, but describes the steps for creating monster characters. Not much going on here.</p><p></p><p>Chapter 2: Monstrous Characters (16 pages)</p><p>This is where the book really starts. Here it is explained that monsters gain feats and skills at the same rate characters do. A new table that will surely be in the 3.5e Monster Manual shows us the amount of skill points each monster type gets (notable error: outsiders get 8+int mod skill points per HD, not 2). The chapter is from there on devoted to explaining and providing Effective Character Levels. ECL is defined as the number of hit dice the monster has, plus a level adjustment for special abilities. An in-depth examination of what monster qualities are worth increasing the level adjustment for follows. ECL tables for many Monster Manual monsters, as well as compiled stat modifiers for those creatures, is included. It also describes how to "acid test" the ECL to be sure the ECL is correct, possibly altering the estimate the rest of the chapter is giving you. Examples are included, and they are helpful. A compiled table of what abilities are worth a level adjustment would have been nice, but it's not there.</p><p>The main problem with this system is that it treats all types of monster HD as being equal, both to each other and to levels in character classes. This is not the case. However, the ECLs provided are mostly reasonable, the explanations and examples are helpful, and any problems are easily fixed by DM intervention and judgement calls (which this book requires a lot of anyway).</p><p></p><p>Chapter 3: Monster Classes (4 pages)</p><p>There are a lot of little chapters in this book. This briefly outlines the process of taking a monsters ECL of X and breaking it into an X-level progression so you can start out as, say, a first level minotaur and gradually gain the full abilities of the monster as you approach the ECL of 8. This is a revolutionary concept that really allows monsters to be be played in campaigns that start at first level. Examples of monster classes are provided in an appendix; this chapter mostly describes the rules for using them.</p><p></p><p>Chapter 4: Feats (12 pages)</p><p>This chapter describes a number of new feats, many of them monster oriented (such as Virulent Poison or Improved web), but some useful for anyone (such as the Cumbrous save feats). A lot of these feats are good, and I use make sure to keep this book handy for creating all my monsters because of this chapter. However, some feats are trouble. There are rage-like feats I wouldn't allow, Greater Flyby Attack, which allows flying creatures to take a number of attacks equal to their dex mod on a charge, and a new and awfully confusing and convoluted take on Empower Spell-like Ability. Good stuff mostly, but like with any book, the DM has to know what to houserule, because there are a few real toublemakers in here.</p><p></p><p>Chapter 5: Equipment (18 pages)</p><p>This is another useful and important chapter with rules for different-size weapons and new items both magical and not. It includes actual write-ups of equipment from the original Monster Manual, such as Pixie Arrows, items based on the MM, such as Aboleth Mucus, and handy magic items, including a amulet that enhances natural attacks and items to help out monsters with not enough limbs (or with too many). Lots of useful stuff in here.</p><p></p><p>Chapter 6: Spells (14 pages)</p><p>This is something of a drop-off in quality. There are a few useful spells in here, but also a lot of typos, some broken things (a first level spell that grants the ability to charge and full attack in one round), and some useless spells (such as Improved Enlarge and Reduce, which are fifth level but only change the duration of the original spells and make them touch range). There are also a number of reprinted spells in here. If you want monstrous spells, check out the issue of Dragon that had them, because this chapter isn't much. On the other hand, spells aren't what I bought the book for.</p><p></p><p>Chapter 7: Prestige Classes (18 pages)</p><p>I'm not the biggest fan of the glut of prestige classes for third edition D&D. That said, this isn't a bad chapter. Rules and advice for creating and using prestige classes are here, as well as ten actual prestige classes. Most are very specific. For instance, the Yuan-ti Cultist is obviously only useful if you're into Yuan-ti. There are also a few balance problems. Then again, show me a supplement that has prestige classes but no overpowered ones. The ones in here aren't bad. Some are quite interesting, including the Illithid Savant, who gains the abilities of the people whose brains he eats, or the Empancipated Spawn, an undead who gradually recalls his class abilities. The oddball Survivor prestige class has no base attack bonus at all, but five levels of extremely powerful defensive abilities. Overall, not a bad chapter.</p><p></p><p>Chapter 8: Campaigns (4 pages)</p><p>Another very short chapter. It has some advice on running a campaign with monstrous characters, but not a lot. I wasn't expecting a second DM guide, but this would have been a good place to include a lot more roleplaying advice or guidlines on how to DM monsters. Not much of a chapter.</p><p></p><p>Chapter 9: Advancing a Monster (6 pages)</p><p>Here are guidelines for advancing a monster. Better CR adjustment rules for advanced monsters are presented, along with DM advice. This chapter is mostly useful for novice DMs. The last half of it is a listing of the core feats and a look at how the DM should use them when creating monster characters. As an experienced DM, I didn't get much out of this chapter, but I see why they included it, and some people might have more use for it than me. By the way, after nine chapters, we're not quite halfway through the book. That's why I said the organization was unusual.</p><p></p><p>Chapter 10: Templates (34 pages)</p><p>This chapter is what got this book up to a 4 rating. It opens with handy clarifications and advice on using templates, as well as a step-by-step outline of adding one, and proceeds to the templates themselves. There are a lot. They are listed with level adjustments and a more complete description of how to apply them. A couple of reprints, such as Tauric from the MM2 and the Yuan-ti templates from Monsters of Faerun are in here, but most of it is new. There are templates for many undead from the original MM, including Ghost Brute (for things with insufficient Charisma to be normal ghosts), Mummified, Spectral, Umbral (Shadow), Wight, and Wraith. There are also compeltely different ones, such as the Feral template to make a primitive, barbaric, powerful creature, Gelatinous, Insectile, Reptilian, Multiheaded, and Symbiotic, which combines two creatures. At the end are some miscellaneous notes on core and Savage Species templates, including some clarifications that are good to know. Overall a very interesting chapter that you can get a lot of milage out of. I've used several of the templates myself already.</p><p></p><p>Chapter 11: Becoming a Monster (7 pages)</p><p>This confusing chapter covers the process of turning a normal character into a monster through various magical rituals. Changing the ECL creates headaches. I know the D&D rules well and it confused me, so be warned. It did need to be in here, however, and some players will make use of the rituals gladly.</p><p></p><p>Appendix 1: Sample Monster Classes (53 pages)</p><p>There are a lot. Not everything you may have wanted, but several giants, fey, hags, and even outsiders, elementals, and undead are built as monster classes. This is where to look to figure out how to build your own Monster Classes more than just a reference. I won't say they're all perfectly balanced (some are frontloaded for example, becuase the outsider hit die in particular gives a lot of benefits at first level). However, I wouldn't say the core classes are all perfectly balanced, either. There's a lot of space used on this Appendix, and it's largely worth it.</p><p></p><p>Appendix 2: Compiled Tables (10 pages)</p><p>A bunch of tables that contain many MM monsters lited by name and by ECL, along with ECL's and basic info. Useful, even if it only contains core critters (and not all of those).</p><p></p><p>Appendix 3: New Creatures (8 pages)</p><p>The Antropomorphic template, which allows people to play a half-human/half-animal is here (why it isn't with the other templates I don't know). The half-ogre is presented as a charater race, as well as the Desmodu, Loxo and Thri-kreen reprinted from the MM2.</p><p></p><p>At the end is a brief index, which is always appreciated.</p><p></p><p>My personal experience with this book is significant. I have an Invisible Stalker player (which wasn't discussed in there, but I used the guidelines to create my own monster class for him). I have a half-ogre player (takes the half-orc barbarian archetype to a whole new level). I've used the templates and feats and items for my NPC's. It's been a surprisingly useful book for me.</p><p></p><p>Overall, Savage Species is a good book. It has editing flaws and some balance problems, but if you have an interest in monstrous characters, it's worth having. I find it especially good to have as a DM, since it's very useful in creating NPC's. If you want to play a monster, this book can really help. If you're not enthralled with the idea, check it out anyway. It might change your mind. It certainly opened my eyes. It's not even close to being a 5, but I can definitely give it a 4, along with my recommendation.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ahnehnois, post: 2010217, member: 17106"] I wasn't planning on buying this book. When I did, I was pleasantly surprised. Savage Species is the D&D sourcebook on playing monstous characters. It's a pretty decent value at $29.95 US for a 224 page hardcover book. It has, in general, very good art. I'm not an art critic, but nothing stood out as being silly or poorly drawn (as did, say the MM2 gem dragons or the epic iconic characters). Some of it was pretty amusing, as the artists had some fun with the topic of monsters as player characters. The cover shows a troll divided into two halves (like Alhandra on the cover of the ELH). One half is an ordinary troll with a tree-brach club on the ground next to him; the other half is a troll fighter with armor and a sword. The editing was noticably bad, with random underscores throughout the book and numerous other typos. It has a confusing and sometimes senseless organization, having a whopping 11 chapters and 3 appendices. The production quality of this book is not really awful, but it's not very good either. This book has the odd distinction of trying to be forward compatible with 3.5e D&D. It includes some previews of the new edition, such as changed face and reach, new skills, and the treatment of monster hit dice in a way that more resembles the way class levels work. It also includes vague information that I hope will become clarified in 3.5e, such as a feat referring to Improved Evasion as allowing you to reroll a save. I'm not sure how many of the monster references are consistent with the new Monster Manual, but some aren't consistent with the old one. Overall, it's not 100% 3.5e compatible, but it does well enough to make it worth buying. A Chapter-by-Chapter Overview: The Introduction Among the normal things, the intro outlines the 3.5e changes that are reflected in the pages to come. That was thoughtful. Chapter 1: Character Creation (4 pages) Basically like the start of the PHB, but describes the steps for creating monster characters. Not much going on here. Chapter 2: Monstrous Characters (16 pages) This is where the book really starts. Here it is explained that monsters gain feats and skills at the same rate characters do. A new table that will surely be in the 3.5e Monster Manual shows us the amount of skill points each monster type gets (notable error: outsiders get 8+int mod skill points per HD, not 2). The chapter is from there on devoted to explaining and providing Effective Character Levels. ECL is defined as the number of hit dice the monster has, plus a level adjustment for special abilities. An in-depth examination of what monster qualities are worth increasing the level adjustment for follows. ECL tables for many Monster Manual monsters, as well as compiled stat modifiers for those creatures, is included. It also describes how to "acid test" the ECL to be sure the ECL is correct, possibly altering the estimate the rest of the chapter is giving you. Examples are included, and they are helpful. A compiled table of what abilities are worth a level adjustment would have been nice, but it's not there. The main problem with this system is that it treats all types of monster HD as being equal, both to each other and to levels in character classes. This is not the case. However, the ECLs provided are mostly reasonable, the explanations and examples are helpful, and any problems are easily fixed by DM intervention and judgement calls (which this book requires a lot of anyway). Chapter 3: Monster Classes (4 pages) There are a lot of little chapters in this book. This briefly outlines the process of taking a monsters ECL of X and breaking it into an X-level progression so you can start out as, say, a first level minotaur and gradually gain the full abilities of the monster as you approach the ECL of 8. This is a revolutionary concept that really allows monsters to be be played in campaigns that start at first level. Examples of monster classes are provided in an appendix; this chapter mostly describes the rules for using them. Chapter 4: Feats (12 pages) This chapter describes a number of new feats, many of them monster oriented (such as Virulent Poison or Improved web), but some useful for anyone (such as the Cumbrous save feats). A lot of these feats are good, and I use make sure to keep this book handy for creating all my monsters because of this chapter. However, some feats are trouble. There are rage-like feats I wouldn't allow, Greater Flyby Attack, which allows flying creatures to take a number of attacks equal to their dex mod on a charge, and a new and awfully confusing and convoluted take on Empower Spell-like Ability. Good stuff mostly, but like with any book, the DM has to know what to houserule, because there are a few real toublemakers in here. Chapter 5: Equipment (18 pages) This is another useful and important chapter with rules for different-size weapons and new items both magical and not. It includes actual write-ups of equipment from the original Monster Manual, such as Pixie Arrows, items based on the MM, such as Aboleth Mucus, and handy magic items, including a amulet that enhances natural attacks and items to help out monsters with not enough limbs (or with too many). Lots of useful stuff in here. Chapter 6: Spells (14 pages) This is something of a drop-off in quality. There are a few useful spells in here, but also a lot of typos, some broken things (a first level spell that grants the ability to charge and full attack in one round), and some useless spells (such as Improved Enlarge and Reduce, which are fifth level but only change the duration of the original spells and make them touch range). There are also a number of reprinted spells in here. If you want monstrous spells, check out the issue of Dragon that had them, because this chapter isn't much. On the other hand, spells aren't what I bought the book for. Chapter 7: Prestige Classes (18 pages) I'm not the biggest fan of the glut of prestige classes for third edition D&D. That said, this isn't a bad chapter. Rules and advice for creating and using prestige classes are here, as well as ten actual prestige classes. Most are very specific. For instance, the Yuan-ti Cultist is obviously only useful if you're into Yuan-ti. There are also a few balance problems. Then again, show me a supplement that has prestige classes but no overpowered ones. The ones in here aren't bad. Some are quite interesting, including the Illithid Savant, who gains the abilities of the people whose brains he eats, or the Empancipated Spawn, an undead who gradually recalls his class abilities. The oddball Survivor prestige class has no base attack bonus at all, but five levels of extremely powerful defensive abilities. Overall, not a bad chapter. Chapter 8: Campaigns (4 pages) Another very short chapter. It has some advice on running a campaign with monstrous characters, but not a lot. I wasn't expecting a second DM guide, but this would have been a good place to include a lot more roleplaying advice or guidlines on how to DM monsters. Not much of a chapter. Chapter 9: Advancing a Monster (6 pages) Here are guidelines for advancing a monster. Better CR adjustment rules for advanced monsters are presented, along with DM advice. This chapter is mostly useful for novice DMs. The last half of it is a listing of the core feats and a look at how the DM should use them when creating monster characters. As an experienced DM, I didn't get much out of this chapter, but I see why they included it, and some people might have more use for it than me. By the way, after nine chapters, we're not quite halfway through the book. That's why I said the organization was unusual. Chapter 10: Templates (34 pages) This chapter is what got this book up to a 4 rating. It opens with handy clarifications and advice on using templates, as well as a step-by-step outline of adding one, and proceeds to the templates themselves. There are a lot. They are listed with level adjustments and a more complete description of how to apply them. A couple of reprints, such as Tauric from the MM2 and the Yuan-ti templates from Monsters of Faerun are in here, but most of it is new. There are templates for many undead from the original MM, including Ghost Brute (for things with insufficient Charisma to be normal ghosts), Mummified, Spectral, Umbral (Shadow), Wight, and Wraith. There are also compeltely different ones, such as the Feral template to make a primitive, barbaric, powerful creature, Gelatinous, Insectile, Reptilian, Multiheaded, and Symbiotic, which combines two creatures. At the end are some miscellaneous notes on core and Savage Species templates, including some clarifications that are good to know. Overall a very interesting chapter that you can get a lot of milage out of. I've used several of the templates myself already. Chapter 11: Becoming a Monster (7 pages) This confusing chapter covers the process of turning a normal character into a monster through various magical rituals. Changing the ECL creates headaches. I know the D&D rules well and it confused me, so be warned. It did need to be in here, however, and some players will make use of the rituals gladly. Appendix 1: Sample Monster Classes (53 pages) There are a lot. Not everything you may have wanted, but several giants, fey, hags, and even outsiders, elementals, and undead are built as monster classes. This is where to look to figure out how to build your own Monster Classes more than just a reference. I won't say they're all perfectly balanced (some are frontloaded for example, becuase the outsider hit die in particular gives a lot of benefits at first level). However, I wouldn't say the core classes are all perfectly balanced, either. There's a lot of space used on this Appendix, and it's largely worth it. Appendix 2: Compiled Tables (10 pages) A bunch of tables that contain many MM monsters lited by name and by ECL, along with ECL's and basic info. Useful, even if it only contains core critters (and not all of those). Appendix 3: New Creatures (8 pages) The Antropomorphic template, which allows people to play a half-human/half-animal is here (why it isn't with the other templates I don't know). The half-ogre is presented as a charater race, as well as the Desmodu, Loxo and Thri-kreen reprinted from the MM2. At the end is a brief index, which is always appreciated. My personal experience with this book is significant. I have an Invisible Stalker player (which wasn't discussed in there, but I used the guidelines to create my own monster class for him). I have a half-ogre player (takes the half-orc barbarian archetype to a whole new level). I've used the templates and feats and items for my NPC's. It's been a surprisingly useful book for me. Overall, Savage Species is a good book. It has editing flaws and some balance problems, but if you have an interest in monstrous characters, it's worth having. I find it especially good to have as a DM, since it's very useful in creating NPC's. If you want to play a monster, this book can really help. If you're not enthralled with the idea, check it out anyway. It might change your mind. It certainly opened my eyes. It's not even close to being a 5, but I can definitely give it a 4, along with my recommendation. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Savage Species: Playing Monstrous Heroes
Top