Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jens" data-source="post: 606597" data-attributes="member: 605">Korimyr, thanks for your post. I will try to make a version that meets your comments, because I have thought about similar things. There are a couple of things I think are important to the template:1. A (reasonably optimized) Savage Fighter should be very similar to a Barbarian. This is to make the template balanced as ECL +0 and to make it compatible.2. Taking the template should change the character, not simply increase the its power. Savage spellcasters in particular should be more martial/tough and less powerful as spellcasters. If they are not hurt in some significant way, the extra HPs etc is simply too good.3. I think it should be possible to drop the template, but it should not be a net advantage to start as savage and then become civilized. It would simply be *wrong* if a savage fighter/wizard/whatever who becomes civilized is better than one who has been civilized all along.However, there are a couple of points where I think you're wrong:- If I gave the Barbarian abilities as free extra abilities, the template would be greatly overpowered. Try compare a fighter (or a character of any other class) with Fast Movement, Rage, Uncanny Dodge and DR to one without.- Since illiteracy only costs 2 skill points to get rid of, I don't think it is very difficult to make a Savage Wizard.- The Spellcasting Limitation does not affect spellcasters evenly. Sorcerers (and clerics with their domain slots) are hurt little (since they have many daily castings to begin with) and PrC spellcasters are hurt a lot (since they have few daily castings) since going from 2 to 1 is worse than going from 6 to 5. Actually, I don't think it affects Sorcerers much at all, I am much more concerned with how it affects Bards <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />.Other than the Barbarian's special abilities, the main effect of the template should be HPs and skills. If the template was changed to increase HD and give bonus skill points (instead of Con increase and skill bonuses), my main concern is that the template would be difficult to remove. Also, skill bonuses allow a savage to be better at some things than a non-savage (for example, a Savage Ranger can be a better tracker than a non-savage Ranger), and he simply loses that edge if he becomes civilized.But if it was not possible to lose the template, some of these concerns go away. But I really do want to keep it <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Xarlen, regarding Minotaurs and other monstrous humanoids:I consider those races (+ most giants and abberations) to have something like the template included already and hence it would be excessive to add it once more. Generally, they already have high Con, low Int, are described as ferocious etc. Even Orcs give me some concerns... Low-level characters should not wish to come close to Raging Savage Orc Warriors (MM orcs with template added and Rage instead of Alertness: Att +5, Dam d12+6, AC 12, HPs 6, Will +1... Ouch!)  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />... For those races, a 'Civilized' template would probably be more appropriate.</blockquote>

Verification