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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ericlboyd" data-source="post: 3103528" data-attributes="member: 7000">Part of the problem is that the CR system falls apart once you require too many monsters. In other words, I am much more suspcious about the "real CR" of an encounter with 8 CR 12 creatures than I am for 1 CR 18 monster. Adding more combatants to an encounter tends to slow down play, make the foes more vulnerable to area of effect attacks, and lower the "gear" below interesting thresholds.Compare an 8-armed orc with 6 HD to 8 1-armed orcs with 1 HD apiece.  Both are CR 6 encounters.Both have the same number of attacks, and most DMs run combats with all the 1 HD orcs having the same initiative. However, many combat conditions and actions (readied attacks, slow spells, etc.) cause the 8 1 HD orcs to diverge in initiative order, leading to a slower combat. The best solution is to make the 6 HD orc have 1-arm with a very powerful blow, in order to speed up play.A well-placed 5d6 fireball might kill the 8 orcs but is unlikely to kill the 6 HD orc.The 1 HD orcs are going to have "boring" gear like masterwork weapons and armor. The 6 HD orc might actually have a unique magic item.The 1 HD orcs require a larger battlefield, making for less logical dungeon design if repeated for the majority of encounters.These are just some examples and I'm sure there are counterexamples. My general point is that I wouldn't want to have more than a couple of encounters at each level be with 6+ combatants. The sweet spot for me is 2-3 opponents in most encounters, and I think this is reflected in the preferences of Dungeon's editors as well.Given that, the problem of most higher level threats being extraplanar or dragons remains.--Eric</blockquote>

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