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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ValhallaGH" data-source="post: 4847835" data-attributes="member: 41187">That's correct, I was talking about 0 xp Novice characters.My point is that it's difficult to really build a talented and capable beginner.First example: I wanted to run a game where the player characters were low-experience special operators.  I started them at Seasoned because it seemed like the place to be.  I've since come to realize that to build a representative special operator you have to have at least Veteran characters to have the combination of skill breadth, skill depth, ability scores, and edges that portray the training operators go through as well as allowing a bit of personal adjustment.  Which is really annoying to me, since the Explorer Edition has a Novice adventure in the back where the combat NPCs (3 Wild Cards, 27 Extras) are all at least 15 experience characters, and more if they don't actually have any hindrances (instead of simply not bothering to make them more useful).  And this is typical of the opponents faced in much of the game play of Savage Worlds.I am well aware that NPCs don't have the same creation rules as PCs.  However, figuring them out by PC rules is a good way to get a feel for what sort of experience it takes to build certain archetypes.  I've found this useful in every game system I've ever messed with.Second example: I was building up towards a Romance of the 3 Kingdoms game (actually based upon the Dynasty Warriors video games, but it's all fun).  I went to build representations of some of the big legends, as they would have been around the time of the Yellow Turban rebellion (generally seen as the beginning of the period).  I simply couldn't build some of them (Guan Yu, Xu Zhu) with the creation rules as the characters were simply too limited.  And unlike Lu Bu, they were supposed to be playable.The historic figures I was trying to emulate in the game were simply too talented and awesome to be portrayed as PCs in the Savage Worlds system.  And that's when I knew, with absolute certainty, that if I was going to mess with this system then I had to have character generation alternatives.I've settled on two methods for me and my friends: more starting points (ability and/or skill), or random abilities.  The starting points are based upon a) player character talent and ranges from 4 to 8 ability points; b) player character skill training prior to adventuring experience and ranges from 12 to 21 skill points.  I adjust and mix the numbers to get exactly the combination that suits the style of heroes I want in my game (untalented to human paragons, dilettante to highly trained but untested specialist).  Hindrances can be used to increase the points as normal.For the random abilities, I've borrowed from the Deadlands system of card draws: 2 is d4, 3-8 is d6, 9-J is d8, Q-K is d10, A and Joker are d12.  Draw X and drop X-5 (usually 6 works fine, for some games I'd be willing to use 7 or even 8), assign as desired.  Yes, it is possible to have a character with d12 in all abilities while having another character, in the same party, with d4 in three abilities.  I'm cool with that and so are my players (generally).  For this option I go with flat skill points, using the scale mentioned earlier.As to the Grittiness, I've found it's actually less dangerous than the original Deadlands system was, despite the uncertainty of using a benny (or chip) to soak wounds; and Deadlands is survivable asuming a) PCs aren't killing each other  (on purpose or accident), b) the really nasty things (vehicle collisions, monstrous assassins, servitors, etc) aren't cropping up very often.That said, in Savage Worlds, any punk with a gun (or bow) can blow away even the most legendary of heroes.  And someone with a flamethrower is death to every man (and woman) born.  Which goes a very long way towards keeping the game feeling like most of the source material.I hope that expansion helped clarify.</blockquote>

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