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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Martin" data-source="post: 1047204" data-attributes="member: 28">I can't see how you're going to have the option of a single mage class when you've got two to three different outlooks in the methods and use of magic in the proposed game.Here's what you do.  You make it a requirement within the campaign that in order to be able to use the Talent base class, you must have taken the Magical Heritage feat. (Thanks, Doc for that one!)  It's a tweak and a half because you're making a base class requiring a specific feat, but because of the flavour you're looking for, one that's acceptable.  Then you create two talent trees--one based on the Mage AvC and one based on the Acolyte AvC.   Each step of those two trees requires the previous step and is a spell level.Example: You name the Mage based tree Universal Manipulation.  The first step of that tree is Secrets of the Initiate.  Your character chooses that talent, which opens up zero and first level spells from the Arcane spell list to that character.  The character from that point in time gets the appropriate number of zero and first level spells for her level according to the standard spell progression table.  She doesn't get any spells of any greater level until she chooses them from the tree.  Hence, at third level, she chooses to pick Word of the Apprentice (next level on the tree) which gives her second level spells that progress accordingly from that level.  (So, if for example she chooses the first talent from the Devotional Energy tree first, then picks the Word of the Apprentice talent up at fifth level, then the progression for both talents would begin at the level in which they were chosen.)Hopefully you see what I'm talking about.  It requires a little bit of extra bookkeeping, but it should hopefully make sense and should work the way you want it to.  I'd either allow for item creation feats that can be taken as bonus feats for that class or shunt them to an advanced class of my making.  (I honestly think that you should have an advanced class focusing on the two separate methods for magic much like NecoAli wrote.  It'll give your players a bit more option to work with.)BAB, Saves, Defense should be based on the Smart Hero.  I'd base Rep off of the Smart hero at least, and be inclined to work from the Tough or even Strong.  Hit Dice should be 1d6.  Skills should be 4+Int (or 5+Int by the way they incorporate the extra point for humans in d20M (side tangent:  How stupid can you be to make a 'simplified' change that should you want to use the rules for anything other than humans you have to base things off of a completely different table.  Starting to get that 2e feeling . . . .)[Edit:  Additionally, you could also make the feat Arcane Skills another requirement for the class (thus tying up both first level feats and making sure that the player sacrifices in order to play this class) or alternately require that the feat be taken before any character has access to those skill sets.]</blockquote>

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