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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Herobizkit" data-source="post: 3311679" data-attributes="member: 36150">You know, there's always the possibility that the players believe that any risk the DM offers is not worth the reward.  So, when the PC's traipse off and do battle, only to die repeatedly, they start to wonder "Why bother?"If one recalls, back in AD&D 1st edition, the DM recommended that a party of PCs average out to nine characters including followers and henchmen.  Have the PC's reached a level where they can attract followers?  And what's so wrong about hiring extra muscle?  I'd do it if I felt I couldn't handle a situation in-game.Now, if the DM constantly thwarts all of MY plans to tackle the BBEG, I'd get frustrated too.  Combine that with my penchant for dying every time I try, that leads me to believe there's something amiss with the DM encounters, or how the players and I work together as a group.  The DM needs to take into account the abilities of his players, and the players need to take responsibility for their abilities and/or lack thereof.Personally, if the players never bite on a hook, why not create an NPC group of heroes that come in and sweep up FOR them?Example: "Your snide comment to the guards sets them off, and they escort you from te building.  Determined to be proven right, you retire to the Inn/leave the city and wait for the inevitable doom.  But it doesn't happen.Later that night, you learn that the city is celebrating as an apparent group of heroes were able to stop the villain from completing his ritual, and they have agreed to remove the Evil Artifact from the area.  The mayor has rewarded them handsomely and the city folk are celebrating in the town square.  What do you do?"The sting comes when they learn about these heroes and find out that they're no better or different than the PCs.  Now, the trick is to use the SAME group of NPCs every time the PCs balk at a quest; If the PCs ask the NPC party for help, they offer to let them "tag along" for a NPC-sized share of the loot and XP!  "We could always use a pair of hands to hold a spear, but we cannot guarantee your safety..."Of course, if it's just that they always want to win, maybe they're just looking for a beer n pretzels kind of game.  Run some pre-made modules and don't worry too much about your campaign world, or step down as DM and offer one of the others to run a game.  Maybe they'll teach you something about what kind of game they enjoy.</blockquote>

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