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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MrMyth" data-source="post: 5275265" data-attributes="member: 61155">I don't know, I think several big assumptions are being made here. I've seen just as much of a view point from the opposite direction - a heavy RP game shies away from Save or Dies that can feel like a cheap, meaningless death (as opposed to one that happens at a truly dramatic moment in the plot), while an RP light game that is about the 'competition' between player and DM can thrive on these sort of threats.  Note, I'm not saying these are the only reasons some games are for or against Save or Die effects. But I think it is simply wrong to try and make the claim that "'Save or Die' effects are favored by roleplaying, but not by RP-light gamers that don't like dying." Both your statement here, and RC's statement that people who don't like Save or Die just don't like dying at all, seem to be attempts to change the context of these discussion, and portray a certain kind of crowd (non-RPers, players that don't like to 'lose', etc) as your opposition. I don't think that is true. We've seen, in fact, several people in the thread specific state that they are opposed to SoD effects because they can be lacking - for them - in dramatic tension.  Now, I'm not saying they are wrong and you are right, or they are right and you are wrong. The key is, both can be true. But they get to decide their reasons for their preferences... not you.  But you and RC both seem firmly in the Save or Die camp while simultaneously trying to offer up the 'reasons' the other side opposes such things. And... I don't really think you guys get to do that. I don't think you guys are doing so intentionally, and there are some genuinely good points that are being made here (about downtime itself factoring into the picture), but it does seem clear there is a level of bias in how you view this - that Save or Die is ok with proper gamers who are about Roleplaying and the experience, and those who don't like it are the gamers who are only focused on 'winning' and 'losing'.  And I don't think that is fair conclusion to reach, or even particularly supported by the posts we've seen thus far in the thread itself.</blockquote>

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