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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MrMyth" data-source="post: 5276907" data-attributes="member: 61155">Fair enough. I'll say this: I'm not a fan of Save or Die (though I think they can have their place when used by a good DM), and my objections to it have nothing to do with disliking PC death in general. From almost every opinion offered in this thread thus far, most people who dislike Save or Die mechanics seems to feel similarly.  The key issues with Save or Die, from what I can tell, instead tend to fall into a few different complaints:  1) That it gives luck too much impact in the game. Having random chance is a core part of D&D; having a single roll decide everything can undercut a player's ability to feel like their decisions have had an impact on the game. 2) It can make for unsatisfying deaths. Some feel that death that feels like a natural consequence of the decisions and results of a combat can be appropriate, heroic, and dramatic, while death that strikes from out of the blue simply leaves one feeling frustrated. 3) It can be disruptive to the rhythm of the game. This can be true of any death, since the party needs to figure out how to get the character back or find a new party member, or get the player back in the game in some fashion. Save or Die effects potentially exacerbate this by making death more plentiful, as well as increasing the odds of it happening at the start of a big combat, leaving the character to see on the sidelines and watch through the entire fight.  I don't think these are universally true, and even when they are, for some there are advantages to SoD effects that outweigh any potential negatives. Similarly, there are approaches one can take (keeping SoD rare, turning it into a challenge for the PCs to prepare for, etc) that can mitigate these problems or even potentially turn them into something that enhances the game.  But I think these are much closer to the heart of the issue more than anyone objecting to character death in general, or cowering away from a challenge.  It is entirely possible to object to the specific issues of Save or Die effects while still wanting both the possibility of character death, and the ability to have an intense and challenging game.</blockquote>

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