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Message: <blockquote data-quote="SteveC" data-source="post: 5278872" data-attributes="member: 9053">A few comments:First, I certainly don't think abandoning save or die turns a game into a tactical or gamist challenge. I tend to think of it as much more narrativist play if anything. I think that save or die fit much better in terms of tactical terms where combat is just a challenge to be overcome and the devil take the hindmost.As an example, I'd say 3X (or D&D in general) would be a terrible way to simulate to original Medusa story. A system like FATE would be much better. Did that combat work out the way it did because Perseus rolled well? If his player had rolled a "1" that's the end of the story? Really? Not at all in my opinion... he had major plot and story backing behind him.And I also have to say that when one's character is out of the combat, for me it pretty much is like sitting around and doing nothing, especially if the GM is running things from some "realistic" perspective: how are you giving the other players advice? You're unconscious! Even if I am able to interact with the battle, not having a character invested in it means I'm far less interested, and that's the case with pretty much every player I've ever met. Your experience is obviously different (and equally valid), but it is not the norm that I have ever encountered.As a player, once I know that a GM has a save or die, devil take the hindmost attitude, I'll certainly play in that game, but it changes my attitude: I play with a much more gamist attitude: either I'm going to try and maximize my nova capabilities for combats where instant death is on the line, or I get every scroll and have every resource available so that all of the instant death is basically a minor inconvenience. Both of those play modes can be fun, but they aren't conducive to playing my character as much of a hero. It's funny, because many of the GMs that want the instant death aspects to a campaign also like to complain that their players aren't being heroes. Of course they aren't! If you reward a particular play style, that's what you get.Save or die just represents a play style that I'm not particularly interested in at this time. I'd say with all of the movement away from it, I'm not alone.</blockquote>

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