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<blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 5279253" data-attributes="member: 18280"><p>Then you mis-read. Or I am mis-reading you.</p><p></p><p>SoD creatures should be treated like anything else:</p><p></p><p>The GM looks at the element's properties, and then determines</p><p></p><p>1. Do I want to include this? Am I OK with the consequences if the PCs fail?</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">- Ex. I have often said in the past, "Don't include save the world scenarios if you are unprepared to accept that the PCs fail and the world is not saved." Or words to that effect.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">- Ex. If you don't want the PCs to obtain Whelm, Wave, and Black Razor, you shouldn't put them into a scenario.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">- Ex. If you don't like orcs, don't use them. And don't use half-orcs.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">- Ex. If you don't think warforged ninjas fit in the campaign milieu, don't allow them to be used. Likewise teletubby pirates.</p><p></p><p>2. What "footprint" does it leave on the world? Is there a way to build suspense/anticipation?</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">- Ex. Aboleth are tunneling under Selby-by-the-Water, attempting to collapse and flood the city. Footprints: A past historical partial collapse, the sounds of digging (from deeper) in the sewers, a more recent partial collapse, the ghost of Amoreth the Arcane (who died while trying to stop them) can be discovered and consulted.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Ex. Giant spiders live in Mirkwood. Footprints: Eyes seen at night, thick sticky cobwebs from tree to tree (but not along the path). Extra: Beorn and Gandolf warn you to NOT LEAVE THE PATH.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Ex. Go to my megadungeon thread (if you can find it), and see the first steps. Coming up with names of special places, treasures, and creatures, so that I can seed rumours of them long before the PCs reach them.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Ex. Read any book on writing. Look up the term "foreshadowing". Effective story telling requires it, and so does effective GMing.</p><p></p><p>3. Do I want to change this thing in any way, to fit the campaign mileu better, to make it more surprising, to make it harder or easier to predict or know?</p><p></p><p style="margin-left: 20px">Ex. The bugbears in the Night Ruins are owl-headed humanoids. This is to make them scarier....the players cannot easily identify them, and thus cannot easily make the "unknown" into the "known".</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Ex. The demon in the megadungeon is limited to a given library; he wants to use adventurers as pawns to escape. The intelligent psionic ooze Blott wants his drugs; he wants to use adventurers to get them from town. In both cases, this allows the GM to use a tougher monster earlier, so that the PCs can come to the realization -- and dread -- that there will be, sooner or later, a real confrontation with these tough customers.</p> <p style="margin-left: 20px"></p> <p style="margin-left: 20px">Ex. A module includes a new magic item or monster. Same reason as the bugbears were changed -- it makes it harder to make the "unknown" into the "known", thus increasing challenge as well as player interest (and uneasiness).</p><p></p><p>The means for forewarning should always exist, although the likelihood of them getting used is questionable. For instance, in 1e, 2e, and 3e at least, I could potentially learn many of the dungeon's secrets through the careful use of divination magic. 1e has specific rules for consulting sages; 3e has Knowledge checks. Likewise, RCFG has divinatory abilities, sages, and skills that might help.....Clever players use these things.</p><p></p><p>But saying that, from hindsight, what happens/what is encountered should make sense in no way implies that the same should be true using foresight. The same should be <strong><em>possible</em></strong> using foresight, for any element of the game. But foresight fails in a way that hindsight does not.</p><p></p><p>This is similar to a good riddle. A good riddle is one which, once you know the answer, the meaning of the riddle itself becomes obvious. No matter how perplexing it was before, when the answer is known there is an "Of course!" moment. That "Of course!" moment means that the riddle could have been solved before the answer was given, but it by no means guarantees it.</p><p></p><p></p><p>RC</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Raven Crowking, post: 5279253, member: 18280"] Then you mis-read. Or I am mis-reading you. SoD creatures should be treated like anything else: The GM looks at the element's properties, and then determines 1. Do I want to include this? Am I OK with the consequences if the PCs fail? [indent]- Ex. I have often said in the past, "Don't include save the world scenarios if you are unprepared to accept that the PCs fail and the world is not saved." Or words to that effect. - Ex. If you don't want the PCs to obtain Whelm, Wave, and Black Razor, you shouldn't put them into a scenario. - Ex. If you don't like orcs, don't use them. And don't use half-orcs. - Ex. If you don't think warforged ninjas fit in the campaign milieu, don't allow them to be used. Likewise teletubby pirates.[/indent] 2. What "footprint" does it leave on the world? Is there a way to build suspense/anticipation? [indent]- Ex. Aboleth are tunneling under Selby-by-the-Water, attempting to collapse and flood the city. Footprints: A past historical partial collapse, the sounds of digging (from deeper) in the sewers, a more recent partial collapse, the ghost of Amoreth the Arcane (who died while trying to stop them) can be discovered and consulted. Ex. Giant spiders live in Mirkwood. Footprints: Eyes seen at night, thick sticky cobwebs from tree to tree (but not along the path). Extra: Beorn and Gandolf warn you to NOT LEAVE THE PATH. Ex. Go to my megadungeon thread (if you can find it), and see the first steps. Coming up with names of special places, treasures, and creatures, so that I can seed rumours of them long before the PCs reach them. Ex. Read any book on writing. Look up the term "foreshadowing". Effective story telling requires it, and so does effective GMing.[/indent] 3. Do I want to change this thing in any way, to fit the campaign mileu better, to make it more surprising, to make it harder or easier to predict or know? [indent]Ex. The bugbears in the Night Ruins are owl-headed humanoids. This is to make them scarier....the players cannot easily identify them, and thus cannot easily make the "unknown" into the "known". Ex. The demon in the megadungeon is limited to a given library; he wants to use adventurers as pawns to escape. The intelligent psionic ooze Blott wants his drugs; he wants to use adventurers to get them from town. In both cases, this allows the GM to use a tougher monster earlier, so that the PCs can come to the realization -- and dread -- that there will be, sooner or later, a real confrontation with these tough customers. Ex. A module includes a new magic item or monster. Same reason as the bugbears were changed -- it makes it harder to make the "unknown" into the "known", thus increasing challenge as well as player interest (and uneasiness).[/indent] The means for forewarning should always exist, although the likelihood of them getting used is questionable. For instance, in 1e, 2e, and 3e at least, I could potentially learn many of the dungeon's secrets through the careful use of divination magic. 1e has specific rules for consulting sages; 3e has Knowledge checks. Likewise, RCFG has divinatory abilities, sages, and skills that might help.....Clever players use these things. But saying that, from hindsight, what happens/what is encountered should make sense in no way implies that the same should be true using foresight. The same should be [B][I]possible[/I][/B] using foresight, for any element of the game. But foresight fails in a way that hindsight does not. This is similar to a good riddle. A good riddle is one which, once you know the answer, the meaning of the riddle itself becomes obvious. No matter how perplexing it was before, when the answer is known there is an "Of course!" moment. That "Of course!" moment means that the riddle could have been solved before the answer was given, but it by no means guarantees it. RC [/QUOTE]
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