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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5280207" data-attributes="member: 22779">Oh, now ain't dat de troof.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />&nbsp; I totally agree here.&nbsp; I think the main points of why I don't like SoD have been hit here, so, I'm just going to reiterate mostly for my own benefit:&nbsp; (In case it's not totally clear, these are just 100% my opinion)1.&nbsp; SoD creatures are too one trick pony.&nbsp; Yes, you can massage situations to make them more useful, much like other one trick pony creatures, but, that doesn't make them good design, it just means that a good DM can do things with inferior products.&nbsp; Being able to use a crappy tool doesn't make the tool not crappy.2.&nbsp; SoD is too lethal.&nbsp; The saving throws in the game are typically 25% fail at best, and usually considerably worse than that.&nbsp; If an effect causes the group to SoD, it's almost guaranteed to kill at least one PC.&nbsp; Any single effect that powerful should not be something that you can run into with any regularity.3.&nbsp; SoD is not worth the cost.&nbsp; The thrill of forcing the save is not worth the potential loss of PC's.&nbsp; Or, to put it another way, 10 seconds of excitement is not worth a player sitting out for potentially tens of minutes or perhaps even hours.It's interesting to note, that once you get away from D&amp;D, and associated clones, retro-clones and the like, I'm really drawing a blank on another game that uses this mechanic.&nbsp; I've been reading a LOT of RPG's lately and I cannot think of a single one that uses this mechanic.&nbsp; Can anyone else think of some?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 5280207, member: 22779"] Oh, now ain't dat de troof. :) I totally agree here. I think the main points of why I don't like SoD have been hit here, so, I'm just going to reiterate mostly for my own benefit: (In case it's not totally clear, these are just 100% my opinion) 1. SoD creatures are too one trick pony. Yes, you can massage situations to make them more useful, much like other one trick pony creatures, but, that doesn't make them good design, it just means that a good DM can do things with inferior products. Being able to use a crappy tool doesn't make the tool not crappy. 2. SoD is too lethal. The saving throws in the game are typically 25% fail at best, and usually considerably worse than that. If an effect causes the group to SoD, it's almost guaranteed to kill at least one PC. Any single effect that powerful should not be something that you can run into with any regularity. 3. SoD is not worth the cost. The thrill of forcing the save is not worth the potential loss of PC's. Or, to put it another way, 10 seconds of excitement is not worth a player sitting out for potentially tens of minutes or perhaps even hours. It's interesting to note, that once you get away from D&D, and associated clones, retro-clones and the like, I'm really drawing a blank on another game that uses this mechanic. I've been reading a LOT of RPG's lately and I cannot think of a single one that uses this mechanic. Can anyone else think of some? [/QUOTE]

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