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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5304143" data-attributes="member: 87792">I think we broadly agree in understanding - we just want to play very different games <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  Hence the caveat I put in - no SoD monsters on the Wandering Monster Table. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  I believe Tiamat to have been on the 1e DMG tables.  (Which is another reason I really don't want to return to Gygaxian approaches).  Nice, thanks.  If I ever have the desire to run a dungeon in 4e I'll use that.  (4e sucks at classic dungeoncrawling IMO.  On the other hand it does pretty well at dungeon exploration). 4e condition track for poisons all the way!  If I say the final result of a poison is a coma rather than death then it damn well is a coma rather than death - even in the RAW.  The thing is that these times are so rare that it should be the exception in exception based design.  I have no objection to Orcus having the Wand of Orcus which reduces anyone to 0hp (which does weird things in a monster vs monster fight), a Catoblepas turning death saves from SSSoD to SoD, or even The Gorgon Medusa having a SoD stony glare.  What I mind is a medusa having a SoD stony glare and almost all random wizards above a certain level packing any of a number of SoD choices. SoD needs to be rare, powerful, and feared.  As such it shouldn't be a core mechanic at all even if certain name-level characters do have SoD.  The issue is a matter of work.  If the monster is spending all their time preventing the PC doing things then it's tying up the monster as well as the PC.  If the monster is negligently anhilliating PCs that's bad.  Depends what you mean by "a mechanic with value" - any extra mechanic at any point bloats the system leading to negative value because it makes the whole thing larger, buliker, and harder to understand.  (Again, this is the point of Exception Based Design - the negative value is massively reduced).  So Medusa should be the exception, not the spider <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  I just might <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />  The first time I re-read that I thought that although it was over the top by my standards, someone was going to take me seriously <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" /></blockquote>

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