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<blockquote data-quote="Saeviomagy" data-source="post: 351055" data-attributes="member: 5890">Actually save-or-die spells were powered UP in 3rd ed, at least at higher ends. In 2nd ed, high level characters stood a damn good chance of surviving a save-or-die spell, fighters most of all. Nowadays, with the ability of a caster to pump up his save DCs, that becomes much more unlikely.Possibilities:1) Spells with a &quot;save or have X affect you&quot; cause ability damage. Medusa's gaze reduces dex, dominate reduces (presumably) wisdom, most instant-death effects reduce constitution. This would represent different aspects of the character being targeted and worn down(a half-dominated individual would be easier to bluff etc.). The problem is that a newly dominated subject would be extremely easy to bluff, by anyone. Perhaps this isn't a bad thing.2) Such spells target hit points, with the desired effect taking place as the target reaches zero hps. This would represent the defense of the character being gradually worn down, until a decisive attack breaks through, whether that be a domination effect, or weapon attack or whatever. Every spell would probably be assigned a formulaic damage (like caster level * d6 to a maximum of 10d6, probably more). An interesting offshoot of this would be that casters would be more willing to sacrifice damage spells for utility spells (because the utility spells also become damage spells). It would be very difficult to balance the damage out so that combat spells still serve a purpose though, while not making utility spells useless against creatures with high hps. Perhaps an entire secondary set of 'mystic' hitpoints? Perhaps making barbarians and fighters more resistant to spells is a good thing?Both methods would have a save-for-half damage.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Saeviomagy, post: 351055, member: 5890"] Actually save-or-die spells were powered UP in 3rd ed, at least at higher ends. In 2nd ed, high level characters stood a damn good chance of surviving a save-or-die spell, fighters most of all. Nowadays, with the ability of a caster to pump up his save DCs, that becomes much more unlikely. Possibilities: 1) Spells with a "save or have X affect you" cause ability damage. Medusa's gaze reduces dex, dominate reduces (presumably) wisdom, most instant-death effects reduce constitution. This would represent different aspects of the character being targeted and worn down(a half-dominated individual would be easier to bluff etc.). The problem is that a newly dominated subject would be extremely easy to bluff, by anyone. Perhaps this isn't a bad thing. 2) Such spells target hit points, with the desired effect taking place as the target reaches zero hps. This would represent the defense of the character being gradually worn down, until a decisive attack breaks through, whether that be a domination effect, or weapon attack or whatever. Every spell would probably be assigned a formulaic damage (like caster level * d6 to a maximum of 10d6, probably more). An interesting offshoot of this would be that casters would be more willing to sacrifice damage spells for utility spells (because the utility spells also become damage spells). It would be very difficult to balance the damage out so that combat spells still serve a purpose though, while not making utility spells useless against creatures with high hps. Perhaps an entire secondary set of 'mystic' hitpoints? Perhaps making barbarians and fighters more resistant to spells is a good thing? Both methods would have a save-for-half damage. [/QUOTE]

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