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<blockquote data-quote="Al" data-source="post: 356803" data-attributes="member: 2486">Highly arguable.&nbsp; If the DM removes save-or-dies without increasing the levels of straight hit-point damage on offer, all he's done is reduce the lethality of the campaign.&nbsp; In this case, it is true that Raise Dead would not be as prevalent.&nbsp; However, he may as well just keep save-or-dies and reduce lethality in other ways: it maintains variety and manufactures the same effect.&nbsp;I'm not saying that.&nbsp; I'm saying that banning save-or-dies AND banning Death Ward etc. is as pointless as banning fire damage AND Protection from Fire.&nbsp; It doesn't achieve anything except the narrowing of the game and shifting the spotlight toward the tanks.&nbsp;And, of course, those opposed to removing instakill effects have no opportunity to raise a counter-argument...&nbsp;Not true at all.&nbsp; Color Spray is pretty damned close to a save-or-die.&nbsp; And at low-levels, this effect is diminished.&nbsp; A couple of shots and you are down.&nbsp; At high-levels, just imagine how many Heals and Mass Heals both sides can muster to drag the combat out ad tedium (NB: If the character is killed, circumventing the use of Heals, then the net result is that you might as well have kept save-or-die.)&nbsp;The net results in both cases in death.&nbsp; Not much difference between dying from being hit repeatedly or dying from failing in save, in the long run.&nbsp;No, I meant a balanced fix.&nbsp;Because an argument (with a few exceptions) generally tends to have two sides.&nbsp; See Shard O' Glase's comments.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Al, post: 356803, member: 2486"] Highly arguable. If the DM removes save-or-dies without increasing the levels of straight hit-point damage on offer, all he's done is reduce the lethality of the campaign. In this case, it is true that Raise Dead would not be as prevalent. However, he may as well just keep save-or-dies and reduce lethality in other ways: it maintains variety and manufactures the same effect. I'm not saying that. I'm saying that banning save-or-dies AND banning Death Ward etc. is as pointless as banning fire damage AND Protection from Fire. It doesn't achieve anything except the narrowing of the game and shifting the spotlight toward the tanks. And, of course, those opposed to removing instakill effects have no opportunity to raise a counter-argument... Not true at all. Color Spray is pretty damned close to a save-or-die. And at low-levels, this effect is diminished. A couple of shots and you are down. At high-levels, just imagine how many Heals and Mass Heals both sides can muster to drag the combat out ad tedium (NB: If the character is killed, circumventing the use of Heals, then the net result is that you might as well have kept save-or-die.) The net results in both cases in death. Not much difference between dying from being hit repeatedly or dying from failing in save, in the long run. No, I meant a balanced fix. Because an argument (with a few exceptions) generally tends to have two sides. See Shard O' Glase's comments. [/QUOTE]

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