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<blockquote data-quote="ferratus" data-source="post: 5922002" data-attributes="member: 55966">I'm always baffled when people argue that save or die in previous editions is more faithful to the myth than save or die in 4e.&nbsp;&nbsp; The 4e version of petrification simply means the petrification takes 18 seconds.&nbsp; That's it.&nbsp; You cannot tell me that the myth is so precise to say that it was instantaneous death, like a fish being flash frozen.&nbsp;&nbsp; The myth simply says that when you look at a medusa, you turn to stone.&nbsp; As someone pointed out, the novelty is allowing the save in the first place. But really, I still don't understand why poison, petrification and curses are instantaneous death, but falling from a great height, a knife to the head, and electrocution are handled through hit points.&nbsp; &nbsp; If you are struck by lightning, it is certainly a crap shoot whether you will survive the experience or not, but a lightning bolt or call lightning spell doesn't make you do a save or die saving throw like finger of death or disintegration do.Lethal poisons are quite obviously better handled through hp loss rather than save or die because no poisons act instantly.&nbsp;&nbsp; Instead poisons cause their victim to become progressively weaker, a process that takes a few minutes to a few weeks, until they die.&nbsp; &nbsp; Ongoing hp damage is the one that obviously offers greater sense of realism and verisimilitude, and it is only the gamist desire of the DM to see his player sweat over a single roll that justifies it.Yeah, I'll say it.&nbsp;&nbsp; Save or Die is gamist, because it is absolutely arbitrary as to what goes under the hit point system and what goes under save or die.&nbsp;&nbsp; There is no reason why ongoing hp damage can't represent petrification, with being brought to 0hp being the petrified state.&nbsp;&nbsp; There is no reason why the gaze attack of a medusa can't be a contest of wills between the medusa and the party, with the party losing hp as they fall under the gaze attack.&nbsp;&nbsp; In fact, it would be a better model, since you don't have the problem of the medusa's gaze coming to nothing, and have the party laughing at it, if they happen to fluke succeed on all their saving throws.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="ferratus, post: 5922002, member: 55966"] I'm always baffled when people argue that save or die in previous editions is more faithful to the myth than save or die in 4e. The 4e version of petrification simply means the petrification takes 18 seconds. That's it. You cannot tell me that the myth is so precise to say that it was instantaneous death, like a fish being flash frozen. The myth simply says that when you look at a medusa, you turn to stone. As someone pointed out, the novelty is allowing the save in the first place. But really, I still don't understand why poison, petrification and curses are instantaneous death, but falling from a great height, a knife to the head, and electrocution are handled through hit points. If you are struck by lightning, it is certainly a crap shoot whether you will survive the experience or not, but a lightning bolt or call lightning spell doesn't make you do a save or die saving throw like finger of death or disintegration do. Lethal poisons are quite obviously better handled through hp loss rather than save or die because no poisons act instantly. Instead poisons cause their victim to become progressively weaker, a process that takes a few minutes to a few weeks, until they die. Ongoing hp damage is the one that obviously offers greater sense of realism and verisimilitude, and it is only the gamist desire of the DM to see his player sweat over a single roll that justifies it. Yeah, I'll say it. Save or Die is gamist, because it is absolutely arbitrary as to what goes under the hit point system and what goes under save or die. There is no reason why ongoing hp damage can't represent petrification, with being brought to 0hp being the petrified state. There is no reason why the gaze attack of a medusa can't be a contest of wills between the medusa and the party, with the party losing hp as they fall under the gaze attack. In fact, it would be a better model, since you don't have the problem of the medusa's gaze coming to nothing, and have the party laughing at it, if they happen to fluke succeed on all their saving throws. [/QUOTE]

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