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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Magus Coeruleus" data-source="post: 1055350" data-attributes="member: 1704">Wow.  Some great ideas here.  I like the feel of the druid being able to get the badger to comply with a Handle Animal check, but do you really think it should even be possible since the badger can't end its rage voluntarily?  I guess it depends on what "voluntarily" means to you.  On the one hand, it sounds like the badger just shouldn't be capable of following that command because it's simply berserk.  On the other, perhaps voluntarily means it can't choose, based on its own deficient survival instincts, to stop fighting, but if the druid pushes it to do so, well, that's not exactly voluntary, so it can work. If that's an allowable tactic, is it too easy, too hard, or just right?  Let's look at the relevant part of the Handle Animal skill from the SRD:So does backing off while in a range sound like a task or trick that it doesn't know but is physically capable of performing.  Hmm, that's not clear but I think you could make a solid argument for it.  Does it seem qualitatively comparable to (even if quantitatively more difficult than) making an animal perform a forced march/overland hustle?  Well, those are trying to get the animal to do something somewhat against its nature that can possibly kill it, so maybe it's not unreasonable to get a creature to do something somewhat against its nature that will keep it from getting killed?The baseline DC for "pushing" an animal is 25.  Because, by definition, the badger has been wounded, it goes up to 27.  Let's assume a Wis 18 level 10 Druid who has maxed out ranks in Handle Animal (not unreasonable since if you're going to deal with raging badgers on a regular basis, you probably need a lot of skill at animal handling).  We also assume that druid has chosen "down" as one of the badger's tricks, so that it's not really being pushed to perform a trick it doesn't know, but to perform it despite the fact that it's raging.Modifier = 13 (ranks) + 4 (Wis) + 4 (animal companion link) = 21That means that you'd need to roll a 6 or better, for a 75% chance of success.  Does that seem fair and balanced?  Should this raging thing be so serious that a stiffer penalty than the -2 for it being wounded should apply?  Say an extra +2 DC (for a total of DC 29) , or maybe a +5 DC instead of that +2 DC (for a total of DC 30)?  That would change it to a 65% or 60% chance of success.Does somewhere in the range of 60% - 75% success (retries allowed, as per normal) sound fair for the chance of an 18 Wis druid who has maxed Handle Animal to try and push his animal companion to break off of combat while it's in a berserk rage that it can't end voluntarily or through a normal command of "down"?If this works, does the rage end?  Maybe the druid should need to make another check each round until the opponent is dead or a sufficient distance away?  Perhaps if the druid beats the DC by 10 (or by 20, or rolls a critical success, whatever) he can end the rage and doesn't need to make new checks each round?What do you think?</blockquote>

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