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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DreamChaser" data-source="post: 1581796" data-attributes="member: 1190">I have long attempted to do something similiar.My questions:You say as long as a creature has damage dealt, it counts as shaken.  I assume you mean that if the undead takes damage it becomes shaken from the effects of the damage.  How long does this shaken condition last?My only real concern is you end up with three seperate rolls: the turning check, turning damage (or effect) and damage.Here is my idea:TURNING UNDEAD-->Clerics make normal turn checks and turn damage rolls to determine power and number of undead affected.  Turn resistance works just as it does now, making a creature harder to affect.-->Any undead affected would take an amount of Wisdom damage and Charisma damage equal to 1 + the cleric's Charisma bonus (if any).-->Clerics can maintain the turning for additional rounds with by concentrating (base DC 15 if distracted).  Each round, all undead who were affected before are again, unless they leave the area (30' radius).  If the cleric wishes to affect different undead, she must make a new turn check.-->An undead that has taken Wisdom and Charisma damage from turning is slowed (as the spell) as long as it takes damage and for 2 rounds after.  If either score drops to 0 due to damage, the creature is immobilized and helpless until the ability recovers to at least 1.  If both abilities drop to 0, the animating force of creature is destroyed.I chose Wisdom and Charisma because they are the stats that relate to sense of self and awareness and are what separates creatures from objects.  Most undead will run out of Charisma before Wisdom, and will be immobilized.  A first level cleric can (provided she rolls high enough on her turn check) immobilize any skeletons she encounters.  More powerful creatures will require more time but their abilities will suffer while being turned (many DCs are based on Charisma so the damage helps the cleric in the short term too).REBUKING UNDEAD-->Clerics make normal turn checks and turn damage rolls to determine power and number of undead affected.  Turn resistance works just as it does now, making a creature harder to affect.-->Any undead affected would take an amount of Intelligence and Charisma damage equal to 1 + the cleric's Charisma bonus (if any). (Mindless undead take only Charisma damage).-->Clerics can maintain the turning for additional rounds with by concentrating (base DC 15 if distracted).  Each round, all undead who were affected before are again, unless they leave the area (30' radius).  If the cleric wishes to affect different undead, she must make a new turn check.-->An undead that has taken Intelligence and/or Charisma damage from rebuking is facinated as long as it takes damage and for 2 rounds after.  If either score drops to 0 due to damage is immobilized and helpless until it recovers to at least 1.  If both abilities drop to 0, the will of the creature is subjugated and (when it recovers) the cleric can choose to make it a cohort or follower.What do you think?DC</blockquote>

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