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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Whitemage Bishieboy" data-source="post: 1586371" data-attributes="member: 20123">i understand your problem with turning,its a clunky swingy mechanic but i want to note some stuff,then ill add ideas.many undead have hitdice well above there CRs.with mage BAB and no con scores its obvious why.thus turning in my experience never did anything till my clerics got divine feats.(whoooo divine feats)yours may vary but anywho just rambleing now onto the suggestion.why include the turn roll anymore with damege,i liked the orginal d6 per 2 levels.heres an idea.turning does 1d6 damege per 2 levels.+2x your charisma modifier.with a DC10+onehalf level+chamod will save for half(or none).hits everything in a(insert base area here.i suggest 40-60ft. cone) and include feats that let you change it to bolts and bursts and stuff.greater turning is easy.greater turning=empowered turning or maximized turning.rebukeing undead does profane damege,its like non-leathel but once it hits there maxium hp there controlled.(i dont like the idea of needing 3-4 turn attempts to control undead of your hitdice)</blockquote>