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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Fanaelialae" data-source="post: 8326402" data-attributes="member: 53980">I really liked the 4e defenses. They did some good things for the design space. You could make an attack against Fortitude defense, which as a result felt more like an attack that had to be absorbed rather than dodged. While you could simply have an attack force a Constitution save, it just doesn't feel the same.That said, I felt where they didn't work as well was when attacking multiple creatures at once (especially multiple creatures of different types). That tended to be a bit slow, as I can roll a bunch of saves for various creatures much faster than my players can roll attacks against them. I just group them up, figure out the TN, and roll. I've found many players tend to roll, calculate the result, and declare the result (even when I give them the TN). So I somewhat prefer saving throws in regard to abilities with multiple targets.</blockquote>