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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7831093" data-attributes="member: 996">That's pretty close to &quot;apart from that, Mrs. Lincoln...&quot;Vancian is harshly at odds with the usual tropes, besides....The more concise example is Mazirian the Magician, a short story.And, unless you trim the spell list and levels, a lot, yeah, D&amp;D not a good model.&nbsp;Was the proper term - though I still find myself saying MU now and then.&nbsp; <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink&nbsp; &nbsp; ;)"&nbsp; data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />I was responding more to the portion, more than the struck-through, though I don't really disagree with that, either. The current Bard, flinging about a wide variety of powerful magic certainly goes beyond any plausible real-world inspirations, even including myth/legend, like Orpheus or Taelsin.&nbsp; A D&amp;D sorcerer (good, even well-designed, class as it's been at times), is a sort of Marvel Mutant magic-user, gifted with inborn power.A 'real' Sorcerer claims magical powers gained from dealing with spirits, and range from legend/fantasy magic-weilders to RL believers and, of course charlatans &amp; grifter. RL sorcerers, of course are far more into bestowing &amp; removing curses and offering to cure medical conditions than throwing fireballs.A 9th level D&amp;D wizard would have access to spells duplicating the powers they displayed, sure - and more - and would cast them in the contrary Vancian mode - and is only half-way up the level progression.Legend has it, that was the idea. Yet purports to be some sort of oddball polytheism.&nbsp;Everything above argues that they are not.&nbsp; They use aberrant Vancian mechanics that don't even do a fair job of modeling Vance and call upon a dizzying range and power of effects that beggar even the greatest iconic mages of legend &amp; fiction.That's every bit as far afield as the current D&amp;D bard from the myths of Orpheus or the knowledge &amp; notorious Satire of the Celitc bards of legend.But they've ranged(pi) far and wide from the original Aragorn clone, becoming TWF specialist, gish &amp; pet-class - as uniquely D&amp;D weirdness as the bard has ever been or become.&nbsp;Class/level I can grant, but Vancian is too bizarre a deviation from traditional and genre magic.Well, fine, we can just agree, then. :hmmph:</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7831093, member: 996"] That's pretty close to "apart from that, Mrs. Lincoln..." Vancian is harshly at odds with the usual tropes, besides.... The more concise example is Mazirian the Magician, a short story. And, unless you trim the spell list and levels, a lot, yeah, D&D not a good model. Was the proper term - though I still find myself saying MU now and then. ;) I was responding more to the portion, more than the struck-through, though I don't really disagree with that, either. The current Bard, flinging about a wide variety of powerful magic certainly goes beyond any plausible real-world inspirations, even including myth/legend, like Orpheus or Taelsin. A D&D sorcerer (good, even well-designed, class as it's been at times), is a sort of Marvel Mutant magic-user, gifted with inborn power. A 'real' Sorcerer claims magical powers gained from dealing with spirits, and range from legend/fantasy magic-weilders to RL believers and, of course charlatans & grifter. RL sorcerers, of course are far more into bestowing & removing curses and offering to cure medical conditions than throwing fireballs. A 9th level D&D wizard would have access to spells duplicating the powers they displayed, sure - and more - and would cast them in the contrary Vancian mode - and is only half-way up the level progression. Legend has it, that was the idea. Yet purports to be some sort of oddball polytheism. Everything above argues that they are not. They use aberrant Vancian mechanics that don't even do a fair job of modeling Vance and call upon a dizzying range and power of effects that beggar even the greatest iconic mages of legend & fiction. That's every bit as far afield as the current D&D bard from the myths of Orpheus or the knowledge & notorious Satire of the Celitc bards of legend. But they've ranged(pi) far and wide from the original Aragorn clone, becoming TWF specialist, gish & pet-class - as uniquely D&D weirdness as the bard has ever been or become. Class/level I can grant, but Vancian is too bizarre a deviation from traditional and genre magic. Well, [I]fine[/I], we can just [I]agree[/I], then. :hmmph: [/QUOTE]

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