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<blockquote data-quote="Blue" data-source="post: 6111910" data-attributes="member: 20564">Hmm, raw numbers mean that the non-casters are better at making saves then casters, which seems somewhat out of whack.&nbsp; You mentioned different classes having different thresholds, but it also seems that those who rolled better at HPs get even more of an advantage in hitting those tiers earlier (or at all).&nbsp; Either one (but worse in the tiered one) it makes CON indirectly give saves.&nbsp; In the every 20, a 10th level character with a 14 CON will have +1 to all saves vs. a character with a 10 CON due to 20 extra HPs.&nbsp; If the numbers are lower for some classes CON gives even more of a bonus.We could reverse it - give everyone +5, and then give a penalty based on total wounds (vs. HD size).&nbsp; This eliminates the how well you rolled HPs or CON as part of your base (unwounded) save, and if one character can get bigger negatives, well, the other character would be unconscious or dead at the same amount of damage taken.Either of these seem to penalize melee combatants, especially &quot;tanks&quot; and other characters who have more swingy HP and take more damage regularly, I'm not sure that I'd really want that.Just as a thought experiment, how about the exact opposite?&nbsp; Call it &quot;when the going gets tough, the tough get going&quot;.&nbsp; PCs (and ONLY the PCs and major villains) get a bonus to saves (and AC?) the more hurt they get.&nbsp; Allows DMs to throw tougher encounters while giving a buffer against crossing the line into TPK land.&nbsp; Really ratchets up the tension and lets players tell the story of how they held off the Balrog that needed extra round to complete the dismissal ritual with only 3 HPs remaining.&nbsp; Adds to dramatic tension by allowing characters to get in spitting distance of death, while providing a mechanism against killing off too many characters.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Blue, post: 6111910, member: 20564"] Hmm, raw numbers mean that the non-casters are better at making saves then casters, which seems somewhat out of whack. You mentioned different classes having different thresholds, but it also seems that those who rolled better at HPs get even more of an advantage in hitting those tiers earlier (or at all). Either one (but worse in the tiered one) it makes CON indirectly give saves. In the every 20, a 10th level character with a 14 CON will have +1 to all saves vs. a character with a 10 CON due to 20 extra HPs. If the numbers are lower for some classes CON gives even more of a bonus. We could reverse it - give everyone +5, and then give a penalty based on total wounds (vs. HD size). This eliminates the how well you rolled HPs or CON as part of your base (unwounded) save, and if one character can get bigger negatives, well, the other character would be unconscious or dead at the same amount of damage taken. Either of these seem to penalize melee combatants, especially "tanks" and other characters who have more swingy HP and take more damage regularly, I'm not sure that I'd really want that. Just as a thought experiment, how about the exact opposite? Call it "when the going gets tough, the tough get going". PCs (and ONLY the PCs and major villains) get a bonus to saves (and AC?) the more hurt they get. Allows DMs to throw tougher encounters while giving a buffer against crossing the line into TPK land. Really ratchets up the tension and lets players tell the story of how they held off the Balrog that needed extra round to complete the dismissal ritual with only 3 HPs remaining. Adds to dramatic tension by allowing characters to get in spitting distance of death, while providing a mechanism against killing off too many characters. [/QUOTE]

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