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<blockquote data-quote="Colmarr" data-source="post: 5741116" data-attributes="member: 59182">I can see a very persuasive argument for saying that failing your third death save at a time other than the end of your turn would not result in you dying (ie. Dying become Dead when you fail that save, which is &quot;an effect changing&quot; and thus the quoted rule applies.&nbsp;I'm not sure the same logic applies to the first and second saving throws. When you fail your first, you go from Dying to Dying (ie. the effect doesn't change). Likewise, when you fail your second save, you're still just &quot;Dying&quot;. Although the game tracks how many death saves you've failed, it doesn't consider them separate or different effects. If the effect doesn't change, I'm unsure how the &quot;Failed Saving Throw&quot; rule applies by RAW.&nbsp;... unless you run the argument that the whole Dying &gt; Dying &gt; Dead transition is one effect and the rule applies to all of it, which I can sorta see.&nbsp;Out of interest, are there any powers in the game that only change their effects on failing a second or third saving throw (ie. X &gt; X &gt; Y)?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Colmarr, post: 5741116, member: 59182"] I can see a very persuasive argument for saying that failing your third death save at a time other than the end of your turn would not result in you dying (ie. Dying become Dead when you fail that save, which is "an effect changing" and thus the quoted rule applies. I'm not sure the same logic applies to the first and second saving throws. When you fail your first, you go from Dying to Dying (ie. the effect doesn't change). Likewise, when you fail your second save, you're still just "Dying". Although the game tracks how many death saves you've failed, it doesn't consider them separate or different effects. If the effect doesn't change, I'm unsure how the "Failed Saving Throw" rule applies by RAW. ... unless you run the argument that the whole Dying > Dying > Dead transition is one effect and the rule applies to all of it, which I can sorta see. Out of interest, are there any powers in the game that only change their effects on failing a second or third saving throw (ie. X > X > Y)? [/QUOTE]

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