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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Felon" data-source="post: 4083040" data-attributes="member: 8158">One of the players in my group got us together to run a little dungeoncrawl with the bootleg characters and kobolds. A few things raised big question marks with us, like "what is Int for if it's not going to get a character any more skills", and "what's the effect of being slowed", and "do attacks of opportunity work like they used to"? But the one that really caught my attention was how saving throws worked. Instead of using Reflex, Fortitude, or Will Defense actively, a saving throw against an ongoing effect is reduced to a roll of 10+ on a d20. That's for all effects, all characters, all monsters...everything. So my wizard uses his daily sleep power on a mass of kobolds. Hie misses half. Of the half that are hit, half of them make their initial saving throw. The ones that fail fall asleep, but they get saves every round to wake up. It certainly seemed pretty darn weak. I gotta admit, I don't see the rationale for making the saves a coin toss. Maybe that was just a shorthand method we were copying, and the real mechanics for saves in 4e will be different.</blockquote>