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Saving Throws design choice
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<blockquote data-quote="Sadrik" data-source="post: 6327739" data-attributes="member: 14506"><p>So it looks like STR, INT, and CHA saves went away in the spells. That means that the classes which have STR, INT, or CHA save Proficiency is just an extraneous class feature. It looks like we are back to Fortitude, Reflex, and Will saves.</p><p></p><p>There are a couple of weird applications though. Disbelieve is an Investigation (INT) check. There is a variety in how some similar effects are handled. Not unlike previous editions. </p><p></p><p>My 2 personal yuks:</p><p>HP Thresholds are still in, I would remove.</p><p>Spell attack concept, I would remove and make saves (standardizes similar effects handled in different ways).</p><p></p><p>Specific spell comments:</p><p>Teleport % roll could have been an INT check</p><p>Unsure about the auto-dispel of spells from Dispel Magic and Globe of Invulnerability - a very minor point</p><p>Web should be Athletics (STR) when restrained.</p><p>Maze could be Investigation (INT)?</p><p>Greater Restoration should have been a leveled up version of restoration</p><p>Greater Invisibility should have been a leveled up version of invisibility</p><p></p><p>List of all spells and their checks:</p><p>Aid – No save or check</p><p>Anti-Magic Field – No save or check</p><p>Arcane Eye – No save or check, though I would imagine that there would be a perception (WIS) or passive perception interaction to see if the eye was detected. No advice offered.</p><p>Arcane Lock increases the DC to break the door or pick the door lock by 10</p><p>Astral Projection – No save or check</p><p>Augury – No save or check</p><p>Beacon of Hope – No save or check</p><p>Blade Barrier – Save (DEX) for ½ </p><p>Bless – No save or check</p><p>Blur – No save or check</p><p>Burning Hands – Save (DEX) for ½ </p><p>Chain Lightning – Save (DEX) for ½ </p><p>Charm Person – Save (WIS) to Negate</p><p>Command – Save (WIS) to Negate</p><p>Commune – No save or check</p><p>Comprehend Languages – No save or check</p><p>Cone of Cold – Save (CON) for ½</p><p>Cure Wounds – No save or check</p><p>Dancing Lights – No save or check</p><p>Darkness – No save or check</p><p>Death Ward – No save or check</p><p>Delayed Blast Fireball – Save (DEX) for ½</p><p>Detect Magic – No save or check</p><p>Dimension Door – No save or check</p><p>Disintegrate – Save (DEX) to Negate</p><p>Dispel Magic – d20+stat vs 10+spell level, would have liked to see this reversed so the DM does not give away how many spell effects are up on the target</p><p>Divination – No save or check</p><p>Dominate Monster – Save (WIS) to Negate</p><p>Dominate Person – Save (WIS) to Negate</p><p>Dream – Save (WIS) to Negate Partially </p><p>Earthquake – Save (CON) to lose concentration on spells, Save (DEX) to Negate being knocked prone, Save (DEX) to not fall in a fissure, Save (DEX) for ½ if a structure falls on you, Athletics (STR) to dig out of rubble.</p><p>Etherealness – No save or check</p><p>Find the Path – No save or check</p><p>Faerie Fire – Save (DEX) to Negate</p><p>Finger of Death – Save (CON) for ½</p><p>Fireball – Save (DEX) for ½</p><p>Fire Bolt – Spell Attack</p><p>Fire Storm – Save (DEX) for ½</p><p>Flame Strike – Save (DEX) for ½</p><p>Flaming Sphere – Save (DEX) for ½</p><p>Fly – No save or check, though I would imagine Athletics (STR) depending on environmental factors such as wind</p><p>Foresight – No save or check</p><p>Freedom of Movement – No save or check</p><p>Gate – No save or check</p><p>Globe of Invulnerability – No save or check</p><p>Greater Invisibility – No save or check, although it does not say, you still need to make Stealth (DEX) checks, found this through various sections of the book</p><p>Greater Restoration – No save or check</p><p>Guardian of Faith – Save (DEX) for ½ </p><p>Guidance – No save or check</p><p>Guiding Bolt – Spell Attack</p><p>Harm – Save (CON) for ½</p><p>Haste – No save or check</p><p>Heal – No save or check</p><p>Healing Word – No save or check</p><p>Hero's Feast – No save or check</p><p>Hold Person – Save (WIS) to Negate</p><p>Holy Aura – Save (CON) to Negate</p><p>Ice Storm – Save (DEX) for ½ </p><p>Identify – No save or check</p><p>Imprisonment – Save (WIS) to Negate</p><p>Inflict Wounds – Spell Attack</p><p>Invisibility – No save or check, although it does not say, you still need to make Stealth (DEX) checks, found this through various sections of the book</p><p>Knock – No save or check</p><p>Lesser Restoration – No save or check</p><p>Levitate – Save (CON) to Negate</p><p>Light – Save (DEX) to Negate</p><p>Lightning Bolt – Save (DEX) for ½ </p><p>Locate Creature – No save or check</p><p>Mage Armor – No save or check</p><p>Mage Hand – No save or check</p><p>Magic Missile – No save or check</p><p>Magic Weapon – No save or check</p><p>Major Image – Investigation (INT) check to negate illusion</p><p>Mass Cure Wounds – No save or check</p><p>Mass Heal – No save or check</p><p>Mass Healing Word – No save or check</p><p>Mass Suggestion – Save (WIS) to Negate</p><p>Maze – INT check to negate (No skill and no INT save helps)</p><p>Meteor Swarm – Save (DEX) for ½ </p><p>Minor Illusion – Investigation (INT) check to negate illusion</p><p>Misty Step – No save or check</p><p>Mordenkainen's Sword – Spell Attack</p><p>Otto's Irresistible Dance – Save (WIS) to Negate</p><p>Passwall – No save or check</p><p>Power Word Kill – HP Threshold, no save or check</p><p>Power Word Stun – HP Threshold and Save (CON) to Negate</p><p>Prayer of Healing – No save or check</p><p>Prestidigitation – No save or check, although if they were going to target someone with it I would grant a save...</p><p>Protection from Energy – No save or check</p><p>Raise Dead – No save or check</p><p>Ray of Frost – Spell Attack</p><p>Regenerate – No save or check</p><p>Remove Curse – No save or check</p><p>Resistance – No save or check</p><p>Resurrection – No save or check</p><p>Revivify – No save or check</p><p>Sacred Flame – Save (DEX) to Negate</p><p>Sanctuary – Save (WIS) to Negate</p><p>Shield – No save or check</p><p>Shield of Faith – No save or check</p><p>Shocking Grasp – Spell Attack</p><p>Silence – No save or check</p><p>Silent Image – Investigation (INT) check to negate illusion</p><p>Sleep – HP Threshold, no save or check</p><p>Spare the Dying – No save or check</p><p>Speak with Dead – No save or check</p><p>Spider Climb – No save or check</p><p>Spirit Guardian – Save (WIS) for ½</p><p>Spiritual Weapon – Spell Attack</p><p>Stoneskin – No save or check</p><p>Suggestion – Save (WIS) to Negate</p><p>Sunburst – Save (CON) for ½ </p><p>Teleport – Special % roll instead of a skill check or save</p><p>Thaumaturgy – No save or check, although if they were going to target someone with it I would grant a save...</p><p>Thunderwave – Save (CON) for ½ </p><p>Timestop – No save or check</p><p>True Resurrection – No save or check</p><p>True Seeing – No save or check</p><p>Wall of Stone – Save (DEX) to Negate</p><p>Warding Bond – No save or check</p><p>Web – Save (DEX) to Negate restrained, STR check to negate restrained (No skill and no STR save helps)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sadrik, post: 6327739, member: 14506"] So it looks like STR, INT, and CHA saves went away in the spells. That means that the classes which have STR, INT, or CHA save Proficiency is just an extraneous class feature. It looks like we are back to Fortitude, Reflex, and Will saves. There are a couple of weird applications though. Disbelieve is an Investigation (INT) check. There is a variety in how some similar effects are handled. Not unlike previous editions. My 2 personal yuks: HP Thresholds are still in, I would remove. Spell attack concept, I would remove and make saves (standardizes similar effects handled in different ways). Specific spell comments: Teleport % roll could have been an INT check Unsure about the auto-dispel of spells from Dispel Magic and Globe of Invulnerability - a very minor point Web should be Athletics (STR) when restrained. Maze could be Investigation (INT)? Greater Restoration should have been a leveled up version of restoration Greater Invisibility should have been a leveled up version of invisibility List of all spells and their checks: Aid – No save or check Anti-Magic Field – No save or check Arcane Eye – No save or check, though I would imagine that there would be a perception (WIS) or passive perception interaction to see if the eye was detected. No advice offered. Arcane Lock increases the DC to break the door or pick the door lock by 10 Astral Projection – No save or check Augury – No save or check Beacon of Hope – No save or check Blade Barrier – Save (DEX) for ½ Bless – No save or check Blur – No save or check Burning Hands – Save (DEX) for ½ Chain Lightning – Save (DEX) for ½ Charm Person – Save (WIS) to Negate Command – Save (WIS) to Negate Commune – No save or check Comprehend Languages – No save or check Cone of Cold – Save (CON) for ½ Cure Wounds – No save or check Dancing Lights – No save or check Darkness – No save or check Death Ward – No save or check Delayed Blast Fireball – Save (DEX) for ½ Detect Magic – No save or check Dimension Door – No save or check Disintegrate – Save (DEX) to Negate Dispel Magic – d20+stat vs 10+spell level, would have liked to see this reversed so the DM does not give away how many spell effects are up on the target Divination – No save or check Dominate Monster – Save (WIS) to Negate Dominate Person – Save (WIS) to Negate Dream – Save (WIS) to Negate Partially Earthquake – Save (CON) to lose concentration on spells, Save (DEX) to Negate being knocked prone, Save (DEX) to not fall in a fissure, Save (DEX) for ½ if a structure falls on you, Athletics (STR) to dig out of rubble. Etherealness – No save or check Find the Path – No save or check Faerie Fire – Save (DEX) to Negate Finger of Death – Save (CON) for ½ Fireball – Save (DEX) for ½ Fire Bolt – Spell Attack Fire Storm – Save (DEX) for ½ Flame Strike – Save (DEX) for ½ Flaming Sphere – Save (DEX) for ½ Fly – No save or check, though I would imagine Athletics (STR) depending on environmental factors such as wind Foresight – No save or check Freedom of Movement – No save or check Gate – No save or check Globe of Invulnerability – No save or check Greater Invisibility – No save or check, although it does not say, you still need to make Stealth (DEX) checks, found this through various sections of the book Greater Restoration – No save or check Guardian of Faith – Save (DEX) for ½ Guidance – No save or check Guiding Bolt – Spell Attack Harm – Save (CON) for ½ Haste – No save or check Heal – No save or check Healing Word – No save or check Hero's Feast – No save or check Hold Person – Save (WIS) to Negate Holy Aura – Save (CON) to Negate Ice Storm – Save (DEX) for ½ Identify – No save or check Imprisonment – Save (WIS) to Negate Inflict Wounds – Spell Attack Invisibility – No save or check, although it does not say, you still need to make Stealth (DEX) checks, found this through various sections of the book Knock – No save or check Lesser Restoration – No save or check Levitate – Save (CON) to Negate Light – Save (DEX) to Negate Lightning Bolt – Save (DEX) for ½ Locate Creature – No save or check Mage Armor – No save or check Mage Hand – No save or check Magic Missile – No save or check Magic Weapon – No save or check Major Image – Investigation (INT) check to negate illusion Mass Cure Wounds – No save or check Mass Heal – No save or check Mass Healing Word – No save or check Mass Suggestion – Save (WIS) to Negate Maze – INT check to negate (No skill and no INT save helps) Meteor Swarm – Save (DEX) for ½ Minor Illusion – Investigation (INT) check to negate illusion Misty Step – No save or check Mordenkainen's Sword – Spell Attack Otto's Irresistible Dance – Save (WIS) to Negate Passwall – No save or check Power Word Kill – HP Threshold, no save or check Power Word Stun – HP Threshold and Save (CON) to Negate Prayer of Healing – No save or check Prestidigitation – No save or check, although if they were going to target someone with it I would grant a save... Protection from Energy – No save or check Raise Dead – No save or check Ray of Frost – Spell Attack Regenerate – No save or check Remove Curse – No save or check Resistance – No save or check Resurrection – No save or check Revivify – No save or check Sacred Flame – Save (DEX) to Negate Sanctuary – Save (WIS) to Negate Shield – No save or check Shield of Faith – No save or check Shocking Grasp – Spell Attack Silence – No save or check Silent Image – Investigation (INT) check to negate illusion Sleep – HP Threshold, no save or check Spare the Dying – No save or check Speak with Dead – No save or check Spider Climb – No save or check Spirit Guardian – Save (WIS) for ½ Spiritual Weapon – Spell Attack Stoneskin – No save or check Suggestion – Save (WIS) to Negate Sunburst – Save (CON) for ½ Teleport – Special % roll instead of a skill check or save Thaumaturgy – No save or check, although if they were going to target someone with it I would grant a save... Thunderwave – Save (CON) for ½ Timestop – No save or check True Resurrection – No save or check True Seeing – No save or check Wall of Stone – Save (DEX) to Negate Warding Bond – No save or check Web – Save (DEX) to Negate restrained, STR check to negate restrained (No skill and no STR save helps) [/QUOTE]
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