Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="DND_Reborn" data-source="post: 8728691" data-attributes="member: 6987520">Yep, having grown up with AD&amp;D and the saving throw tables, a lot about saves in 5E has bothered me.I'm going to recap some things:1. Save DCs generally begin around 12 and end around 20 (+/- 2 in most cases). So, I agree an average increase of roughly +8.2. Save proficiency begins (at best) around +5 typically and ends around +11 (at best), so only +6. Of course, if you aren't proficient, it is much worse.BUT here's the thing. In earlier editions your chances of saving began at about 30% (average) and ended at 75%, even without counting magical items (which were generally plentiful IME). (See the table below). By contrast, in 5E, even without ability modifiers, your chances begin better, around 45%, but end worse at around 35% (over all).[ATTACH=full]257443[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]257442[/ATTACH]5E effects are generally not as harsh, and many features allow repeated saves.However, in short, I agree that it is odd that you get worse at saves as you get more experienced.The easiest solution is to give all creatures proficiency in all saves. Creatures who &quot;had proficiency&quot; gain advantage instead.For example, a Young Red Dragon normally has the following saves:&nbsp; Dex +4, Con +9, Wis +4, Cha +8. Using this rule, those saves would have advantage. and STR and INT would add proficiency bonus, becoming +10 and +6, respectively.Now, you have to be prepared for the fall out of these changes. Magic loses a lot of power, but from what many people write on these forums, that isn't a bad thing to them...</blockquote>

[QUOTE="DND_Reborn, post: 8728691, member: 6987520"] Yep, having grown up with AD&D and the saving throw tables, a lot about saves in 5E has bothered me. I'm going to recap some things: 1. Save DCs generally begin around 12 and end around 20 (+/- 2 in most cases). So, I agree an average increase of roughly +8. 2. Save proficiency begins (at best) around +5 typically and ends around +11 (at best), so only +6. Of course, if you aren't proficient, it is much worse. BUT here's the thing. In earlier editions your chances of saving began at about 30% (average) and ended at 75%, even without counting magical items (which were generally plentiful IME). (See the table below). By contrast, in 5E, even without ability modifiers, your chances begin better, around 45%, but end worse at around 35% (over all). [ATTACH type="full" width="245px"]257443[/ATTACH][ATTACH type="full" width="372px"]257442[/ATTACH] 5E effects are generally not as harsh, and many features allow repeated saves. However, in short, I agree that it is odd that you get worse at saves as you get more experienced. The easiest solution is to give all creatures proficiency in all saves. Creatures who "had proficiency" gain advantage instead. For example, a Young Red Dragon normally has the following saves: Dex +4, Con +9, Wis +4, Cha +8. Using this rule, those saves would have advantage. and STR and INT would add proficiency bonus, becoming +10 and +6, respectively. Now, you have to be prepared for the fall out of these changes. Magic loses a lot of power, but from what many people write on these forums, that isn't a bad thing to them... [/QUOTE]

Verification