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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8730042" data-attributes="member: 93670">IMO both.&nbsp;&nbsp; In the past there was a real level of strategy involved with guessing the weak save for a monster even though targeting it might involve using a less optimal spell or a spell that might even have a lower DC.&nbsp; Without opening the spoiler take a guess what thelowest&nbsp; dump stat save of a troll to target is &amp; name some similar spells that a single caster class has&nbsp; targeting it vrs the next lowest save.&nbsp;[spoiler=&quot;Take the troll as an example&quot;]without cracking open the old 3.5MM the troll appears to have had t<a href="https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/troll.htm" target="_blank">his statblock</a>23/14/23/6/9/6 for attribs with16/8/8 fort/reflex/will savesThe<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/17040-troll" target="_blank"> 5e troll</a> has:18/13/20/7/9/7 attribs with saves of +4/+1/+5/-2/-1/-2<a href="https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/troll.htm" target="_blank">https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/troll.htm</a>[/spoiler]<a href="https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/troll.htm" target="_blank">https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/troll.htm</a>Targeting a save with a +16 vrs a +8 is huge even if it means using a less optimal spell.&nbsp; You can probably guess the +4 &amp; +5 or at least narrow down the two stats involved.&nbsp; Targeting a +4/+5 vrs a +1 to -2 not so much &amp; there's no real way to telegraph or guess which save is +1/-1/-2/-1.&nbsp; Even if you could guess or were sure&nbsp; what was what there isn't much you can do to target one save vrs another so instead of a huge 8 point difference it's more like a one or two or maybe three point difference even if you have more than one spell for those saves.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 8730042, member: 93670"] IMO both. In the past there was a real level of strategy involved with guessing the weak save for a monster even though targeting it might involve using a less optimal spell or a spell that might even have a lower DC. Without opening the spoiler take a guess what thelowest dump stat save of a troll to target is & name some similar spells that a single caster class has targeting it vrs the next lowest save. [spoiler="Take the troll as an example"] without cracking open the old 3.5MM the troll appears to have had t[URL='https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/troll.htm']his statblock[/URL] 23/14/23/6/9/6 for attribs with16/8/8 fort/reflex/will saves The[URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/monsters/17040-troll'] 5e troll[/URL] has: 18/13/20/7/9/7 attribs with saves of +4/+1/+5/-2/-1/-2 [URL='https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/troll.htm'][/URL][/spoiler][URL='https://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/troll.htm'][/URL] Targeting a save with a +16 vrs a +8 is huge even if it means using a less optimal spell. You can probably guess the +4 & +5 or at least narrow down the two stats involved. Targeting a +4/+5 vrs a +1 to -2 not so much & there's no real way to telegraph or guess which save is +1/-1/-2/-1. Even if you could guess or were sure what was what there isn't much you can do to target one save vrs another so instead of a huge 8 point difference it's more like a one or two or [I]maybe[/I] three point difference even if you have more than one spell for those saves. [/QUOTE]

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