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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Herremann the Wise" data-source="post: 4523690" data-attributes="member: 11300">Hello Everyone,One of the significant changes from 3E to 4E was the switch from Saving Throws to Defenses. I'm wondering how you or your group have found both systems, is it an improvement for you or no? Personally, this was one of the things that I initally thought might speed up play a little but so far, it has been much of a muchness. What I have found though is that by having powers attack one of four different defenses, it allows more tactical scope for all party members, rather than just for third edition's spellcasters.Initially, I did not like the idea of changing saving throws to defenses and particularly 4e's vanilla saving throw to end particular effects still feels incredibly wonky. However, the system does seem to blend well with the ethos of getting rid of save or die effects and I'm sure most would say that things play smoothly (more smoothly though, I'm not too sure). In 3E, if your character's existence was based upon making a save, it was far more appropriate for the player to roll the chance to avoid it. With 4E, that roll belongs to the attacker but admittedly, the effects are not of the save or die variety.However, we have still been left with a generic saving throw to end effects. In the end, would it have been easier to have just left saving throws alone, reduce the number of save or die effects, and allow non-spellcasters to target the fort/ref/will saves as well as the ACs of their opponents?On a slightly different front, I think 4E has managed to mathematically deal very well with saving throws so there is a suitable partity between a party of level x and a suitable encounter. Our group has found things so far to be well balanced with encounters. How has your group found this in terms of saves/defenses?The angel in this (but also the devil) is the half level bonus. This allows parity to be held between the characters and the monsters they face. 3E has had difficulty in maintaining this parity particularly at mid to high levels. However, this vanilla half-level bonus also produces a few anomalies where a mid level wizard is a paragon of the defenses compared to the 1st level fighter "hero". There's just an itch with this that I can't scratch, but again in-game, smooth as silk gameplay. How has your group found the half-level bonus? Smooth, or thematically clunky where certain classes are getting bonuses they are perhaps not entitled to.Best RegardsHerremann the WisePS: This is meant to be a critical review of the saving throw/defense system for recent D&D editions. If talking critically about this aspect of your favoured edition (be it 3e or 4e) gets you riled up and feeling like you need to don armor to venture forth and protect it's virtue... please don't. Criticism (good or bad) is fine, hate is not.</blockquote>

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