saving vs illusions during combat

[Bad Paper]

OK, so Thing failed its save vs silent image during combat with the illusion. What if it strikes the illusion? (an illusion's AC is 10+size modifier) Is that good enough for another save, or for evidence it isn't real? If the invisible caster of the illusion is on hand to concentrate on the illusion reacting to combat, is that enough to handle being struck?

 

[Infiniti2000]

If the character strikes the illusion and the illusion does not react, then I would consider that proof, and "A character faced with proof that an illusion isn’t real needs no saving throw."

The weird thing about reacting is that the invisible caster would need to ready to react. Otherwise, given the cyclical nature of D&D combat, it would be detrimental to illusionists.

 

[Bad Paper]

If the character strikes the illusion and the illusion does not react, then I would consider that proof, and "A character faced with proof that an illusion isn’t real needs no saving throw."

The weird thing about reacting is that the invisible caster would need to ready to react. Otherwise, given the cyclical nature of D&D combat, it would be detrimental to illusionists.

oh!

What if we say that "concentration" (that is, burning your standard action each round) is enough to create a believable reaction?

 

[Infiniti2000]

...and what about that third party spell/feat (whatever it is) that "handles" the concentration for you? Just keep that in mind in case that's the track this train is running down.

IMO, an illusion that requires concentration isn't a very good illusion to begin with. If you want to allow it, then consider granting a +4 circumstance bonus on the saving throw for "poor reaction time".

Unless the PC is seans23, and then make it a -4 "bonus". Call it an Evil Hatrack bonus, IYKWIM and I know he will.

 

[Hypersmurf]

OK, so Thing failed its save vs silent image during combat with the illusion. What if it strikes the illusion? (an illusion's AC is 10+size modifier) Is that good enough for another save, or for evidence it isn't real? If the invisible caster of the illusion is on hand to concentrate on the illusion reacting to combat, is that enough to handle being struck?

"I swing at the guy in front of me. 17?"
"Your sword passes right through him."
"Ha! It's an illusion, guys!"
"He reaches out and touches you through your armour. Take... 4 points of Con drain."

-Hyp.

 

[eamon]

OK, so Thing failed its save vs silent image during combat with the illusion. What if it strikes the illusion? (an illusion's AC is 10+size modifier) Is that good enough for another save, or for evidence it isn't real? If the invisible caster of the illusion is on hand to concentrate on the illusion reacting to combat, is that enough to handle being struck?

Generally, you don't receive a saving throw until you interact with the illusion at all. That is, when silent image is cast, it's perceived as real within the bounds of the spell, without saving throw, until you "interact" with it. What "interact" means is somewhat up to the DM, but there's a discussion about that at http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/rg/20060221a, which can give you an idea. In any case, attacking is definitely interacting.

If you attack a figment, and hit, then you're definitely interacting, and should receive a saving throw, at the least - Rules of the game suggests that hitting a figment and feeling your sword pass through should probably be grounds for automatic disbelief, though, as hyp points out, in some cases that might be premature. I'd say that if the figment is portraying something normally solid (say, NOT a wraith or so), automatic disbelief isn't unreasonable. But if the thing looks like a wraith...

In any case, silent image is, well, silent so I'd give a circumstance bonus to those to recognize that notice that the full plate fighter they're fighting is kinda quiet and clank-free ;-).

 

[Hypersmurf]

I'd say that if the figment is portraying something normally solid (say, NOT a wraith or so), automatic disbelief isn't unreasonable. But if the thing looks like a wraith...

The wraith cast Disguise Self

-Hyp.