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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Goonalan" data-source="post: 5662710" data-attributes="member: 16069">I'm not suggesting for a moment we start every combat with a surprise round- far from it, I will generally draw a line in the sand and state- you move to here, you spot X; X seems not to have spotted you... Movement to this point is safe, movement beyond requires a stealth check.There are occassions, for instance in this encounter when I made it clear (or as clear as I'm going to make it) that the creature had in all likelihood spotted you... Quotes-Velani hacks her way in to the chamber... the creature in the corner, she can just see it, doesn't stir- yet...Kyalia unleashes two arrows into the mass of webs high in the corner... alas only one strikes its target, scoring no more than a glancing blow, the bulbous spider-thing stirs- but only for a second, and then resumes its lurking squat.and prior to that-Kali and then Kyalia creep a little forward- the spider-like creature remains attached to the wall in the thick of the webs, in the north-west corner, Kyalia notes its location.There's a clicking noise within the chamber... then silence, eerie...I'm trying to describe what's happening of course... but I'm also trying to give clues, things are not as they seem- the creature is making a decision not to attack- it sees you, takes an arrow shot, and still waits...I agree with all that you have said, although-So, if you use surprise round mechanics, the melee characters who go first can only move, and then the other side gets to charge them.Seems to make my job more difficult- this has perhaps been the only 'ambush' style predators you have encountered, that's the thing they do- I should play them that way. If the melee character gets a high init and decides to get half way to their target then... that's there look-out. I don't mean this in a nasty way but- so be it. That's how an ambush works, their are of course alternatives for you guys.Back up... and fetch out missile weapons.Don't back up and fetch out missile weapons anyway (or have the Mage fire Magic Missile after Magic Missile at the thing until it either goes away or comes to you), and don't start the Init clock running until you're ready- everyone gets to throw or fire- draw weapon/implement and go bonkers next round, and the bad guys don't even get their action triggered- unless they can charge or...The point being the mechanics of the game are not unknowable (to all), we've got to fathom out a way of interpreting them that works situation by situation- they're knowable but elastic afterall.Just out of interest how would you have played this one... with what you know so far, how would you make the PCs think we've got the drop but... that's not the case. How do you use Ambush style creatures- particularly if some or all of them start unseen?Do you just roll init and see how it falls- no surprise, genuinely interested and want to learn.Cheers PDR</blockquote>

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