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<blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5858604" data-attributes="member: 22779">This, right there, is where you're making a mistake.&nbsp; The party of four tenth level characters is certainly EL 14, although 4 tenth level PC's would be considerably higher (double wealth by level, almost certainly heroic level stats - both of which bump each character by 1, making this group actually 4*12 CR creatures.However, the EL system isn't meant for doing what you're doing - a one to one comparison of creatures, particularly PC classes.&nbsp; After all, a creature might be EL 10 because of special abilities, while another might be because it's really tough.&nbsp; However, the special abilities creature will own the tough creature because of saving throw elements - or possibly the ability to fly while the other has no ranged attacks.&nbsp; EL just doesn't work that way.You are kidding right?&nbsp; Let's stick with your second scroll shall we?Combine Haste with Summon Monster V and suddenly you double the effective damage output of a spell.&nbsp; I mean, heck, I summon a Giant Fiendish Crocodile and, with it's improved grab and grapple of +21, I just crushed anything medium sized or smaller.&nbsp; Didn't even need the Haste there.&nbsp; Confusion targets Will.&nbsp; Your fighter now has an 80% chance per round of not being able to do anything but take a beating.&nbsp; Never mind what you can do with a Fear spell.Look, you can believe anything you like.&nbsp; That's fine.&nbsp; But, there's a REASON casters are considered top of 3e.&nbsp; It's not like this is some new idea that's sprung out of nowhere.&nbsp; What are the three most powerful classes in 3e D&amp;D?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Hussar, post: 5858604, member: 22779"] This, right there, is where you're making a mistake. The party of four tenth level characters is certainly EL 14, although 4 tenth level PC's would be considerably higher (double wealth by level, almost certainly heroic level stats - both of which bump each character by 1, making this group actually 4*12 CR creatures. However, the EL system isn't meant for doing what you're doing - a one to one comparison of creatures, particularly PC classes. After all, a creature might be EL 10 because of special abilities, while another might be because it's really tough. However, the special abilities creature will own the tough creature because of saving throw elements - or possibly the ability to fly while the other has no ranged attacks. EL just doesn't work that way. You are kidding right? Let's stick with your second scroll shall we? Combine Haste with Summon Monster V and suddenly you double the effective damage output of a spell. I mean, heck, I summon a Giant Fiendish Crocodile and, with it's improved grab and grapple of +21, I just crushed anything medium sized or smaller. Didn't even need the Haste there. Confusion targets Will. Your fighter now has an 80% chance per round of not being able to do anything but take a beating. Never mind what you can do with a Fear spell. Look, you can believe anything you like. That's fine. But, there's a REASON casters are considered top of 3e. It's not like this is some new idea that's sprung out of nowhere. What are the three most powerful classes in 3e D&D? [/QUOTE]

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