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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hussar" data-source="post: 5859021" data-attributes="member: 22779">Ahh, we're off to shifting goalposts.  We're were talking about comparing PC to PC were we not?  Not PC to monster.  So, your summoning vs CR 9 monster doesn't really work.Funny thing is, a 10th level wizard vs a CR 9 monster probably has a pretty decent chance of winning that encounter.  The 10th level fighter is so much street pizza as the CR 9 monster improve grabs him and squishes him into jelly. And, yes, the problem here is systemic.  The Vancian system is predicated on the idea that all spells get more powerful as you go up levels.  However, the costs for the more powerful spells do not go up at all.  It is just as difficult to cast a 9th level spell as a 1st level one (presuming you can cast it at all).  However, because the effects continue to be piled on higher and higher, because a 5th level spell has to be better than any 4th level spell, and 4th is better than 3rd and so on, the system grants casters powers that increase exponentially.Take a look at the trap designing mechanics for 3e.  There's a reason that traps top out at CR 10.  A CR 10 trap is an instant death trap.  There really isn't anything more powerful than that for a trap.  Yet, a caster is just hitting his stride at 10th level.  At 11th, he actually HAS instant death effects - Disintegrate is a 6th level spell.Think about that for a second.  In the magic system, a spell that not only kills you but kills you in such a way that you have virtually no chance to ever come back, is still THREE levels down from the most powerful spells.  Dominate Humanoid is a 5th level spell.  I gain pretty much total control over another character for about 2 weeks, and my control extends anywhere on the plane.  And that's still at the halfway point in wizard power.That's why I say the problem is system.  Because the system is based on an escalating scale, each higher level effect MUST be more powerful than the lower level effect.  That's fine for straight up damaging spells, but, anything else becomes problematic.To me, to resolve this, I would have any spell that lasts longer than an encounter be a ritual with GP costs and also in game requirements.  You want to Dominate someone?  Fine, you have to get them to sign a contract agreeing to the domination - physical coercion is perfectly fine, but, if they don't sign, you don't dominate.  There, lots of flavor, interesting effects, and nicely balanced in the game./edit to add because this bothered me so I looked it up:Umm, the range is actually Medium - 100 feet plus ten feet per level.  The AREA is a 15 foot burst, meaning that I can hit multiple targets with the same spell.</blockquote>

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