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<blockquote data-quote="Rykaar" data-source="post: 4110398" data-attributes="member: 56361">I'm curious when you do a party vs party fight how you keep track of even relative positioning so you can use sliding and moving mechanics.&nbsp; I feel like at some point somebody is noting positions in at least general terms on something other than their mind's eye.&nbsp; Personally, I would find that as cumbersome or moreso than just using minis, but that's just me.&nbsp; Or maybe I'm wrong and you all just have phenomenal visualization skills.Perhaps the issue is that you don't want to lose the aspect of the game where your mind is forced to detail the battle, and looking at plastic avatars of your characters cheapens that mental picture.&nbsp; I think one solution then is to simply not use minis, use counters that only have names on them, not even illustrations.&nbsp; Hell, use your Mountain Dew cans for the party and some other soda for the baddies--that way everyone can see the markers from distant couches.Also, consider skipping the grid, and just put these counters in relative proximity, and move them in relative distances based on the ongoing action.&nbsp; That way your minds aren't channelled along gridlines, but you still have a better concept of where each person is standing.&nbsp; You can thumb your nose at the 1-2-1-2 vs 1-1-1-1 debate then as a bonus.You might want to try this before contorting your brains to make the precision of 4e combat work without minis.&nbsp; And definitely try it before dismissing 4e outright, assuming it has appeal to you.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Rykaar, post: 4110398, member: 56361"] I'm curious when you do a party vs party fight how you keep track of even relative positioning so you can use sliding and moving mechanics. I feel like at some point somebody is noting positions in at least general terms on something other than their mind's eye. Personally, I would find that as cumbersome or moreso than just using minis, but that's just me. Or maybe I'm wrong and you all just have phenomenal visualization skills. Perhaps the issue is that you don't want to lose the aspect of the game where your mind is forced to detail the battle, and looking at plastic avatars of your characters cheapens that mental picture. I think one solution then is to simply not use minis, use counters that only have names on them, not even illustrations. Hell, use your Mountain Dew cans for the party and some other soda for the baddies--that way everyone can see the markers from distant couches. Also, consider skipping the grid, and just put these counters in relative proximity, and move them in relative distances based on the ongoing action. That way your minds aren't channelled along gridlines, but you still have a better concept of where each person is standing. You can thumb your nose at the 1-2-1-2 vs 1-1-1-1 debate then as a bonus. You might want to try this before contorting your brains to make the precision of 4e combat work without minis. And definitely try it before dismissing 4e outright, assuming it has appeal to you. [/QUOTE]

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