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Message: <blockquote data-quote="hawkeyefan" data-source="post: 8769017" data-attributes="member: 6785785">So these resources are what the OP was about. What resources should there be for players to use in play? Like, what would make the players suspicious? Is it GM cues in playing the patron NPC and other NPCs? Is it the ability to leverage contacts and allies in the game world? Class abilities and the like? But it's not just like real life. It's a game, and so it has to be considered as a game. No matter what, there is a relationship going on between the participants, and how the game goes will impact that relationship. So, for instance, the betraying patron trope may wind up causing me to mistrust any or all NPCs that the GM puts in front of me. That's going to impact the game. Now, it may not cause me to do that. But my point is that the risk is there, and the benefit I seem to get by having them betrayed in such a way... which, I should add, in your original example went even further by casting ALL the accomplishments of the PCs in a new light, that of having helped the vampire achieve his goals... is that they know there are NPCs they can't trust, I don't see that risk being worth this reward."Hey, everything you guys have done? It's actually been in service to this vampire because that's what I designed!" is not, in my opinion, a way to build trust between players and GM. There are far simpler ways to establish that NPCs can't be trusted. Ones that don't potentially impact the player-GM relationship. So what were the clues that they missed in the second example? What kinds of resources were available for them to potentially learn of this betrayal beforehand? I'm really only concerned about the setting in how it relates to my characters. I don't care about the pages and pages of notes the GM has written until they matter to play. And I say this as a GM who used to spend an inordinate amount of time ahead of play on worldbuilding. More often than not, the vast majority of that effort is wasted. Sure, now and again, a GM will create a cool bit of setting detail that will make me go "ah, that's clever" or similar. But unless it leads to something that is playable, it doesn't really matter.</blockquote>

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