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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DrSpunj" data-source="post: 1565093" data-attributes="member: 994">Umm, cute. Not correct, but cute! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Hide & Spot, as defined in the context of the rules, only pertain to the visual sense. This is the whole reason we House Ruled Sneak, Spot & Sense for your game, Nail. However, in the Core Rules any time another sense comes into play Hide & Spot may become irrelevant. If you have Scent, that mechanic will likely trump Hide & Spot, same with Blindsense and...here's the common sense kicking in from the DM...so would touch! Unless we're dealing with a target who's completely numb there's no way to continue Hiding vs that target once you've touched them.If you allow that a Rogue can sneak up on someone and get a single backstab attack, there's no reason the Rogue couldn't instead choose to use the Grapple Special Attack instead of a backstab attack. If the Grab succeeds then you're now touching them and you're no longer Hiding vs that target. The Hide roll (with the -20 penalty) is still important here because if you miss on the Grab attack (even though you've caught your target in a surprise round making that touch attack extremely easy) you can fade back into the woodwork, so to speak. I'd probably also give the Hidden Rogue a +2 circumstance bonus on their opposed grapple check in the Hold stage in this situation since they literally got the jump on their opponent. Good, cuz they aren't functionally equivalent. If you're invisible this part kicks in:Furthermore, if you're under the effect of a Greater Invisibility spell you don't become visible after attacking, so a Full Attack while Invisible is possible. If you're just using the Hide skill (presumably with HiPS), under my interpretation you're forced to make an opposed check with each attack during a Full Attack action, all of them with the -20 penalty. Fail one and you're no longer successfully Hiding so you don't get Sneak Attack damage and will have to try and Hide again on your turn.IMC you could certainly attempt that, but I would require a Hide check with each attack with the -20 penalty. If any of them are unsuccessful then any later attacks that round would not be from Hiding (and therefore would not allow Sneak Attack damage unless some other condition were in place).Thanks.</blockquote>

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